If you are over 70 stay fit or you will be written off as dead meat

[cashflo2u2]

I see more and more of this type of conclusion. Especially what I hear about the new health plans. Am I being overly suspicious?

Save Swine Flu Drugs for Younger Patients, Study Urges - Yahoo! News

 

[crazy connie]

Nope you are not. It is in both of the current plans to counsel our elders whenever they have an issue or on mandatory 5 year intervals to understand how to refuse treatment. Also, a review committee to establish appropriate levels of procedures, medicine and care based on age, social choices and prognosis. It appears to be flat out rationing for most so we can provide care standards for all of society in the US.

The flu vaccine does not bother me so much as there is expected to be a mfg shortage for the Swine Flu. I would prefer my kids to get it as they are out and about every day amd have lots of years to work and pay for my old age I may not get to!

 

[ERD50]

Did either of you read the article?


There is a reason behind the recc, it not simply putting the young before the old:

If the current swine flu pandemic behaves like the 1918 flu, antiviral drugs would not significantly reduce death rates among people older than 65 and, in fact, might cause the H1N1 virus to develop increased drug resistance, according to Stefano Merler, of the Bruno Kessler Foundation in Italy, and his colleagues.

-ERD50

 

[crazy connie]

Did either of you read the article?

Yes I did read the article and a couple from earlier on the process to make this particular vaccine. The longer mfg time along wth the time constraints of the mfg process is projected to produce quantities that will not allow the population coverages of past strains.

I am somewhat of a speed reader and would rarely comment on a serious issue were I ill-informed. There is not an excuse for stiring the pot from a position of arrogance nor ignorance in the age of the internet with it's richness of varying viewpoints and volumes of information.

No harm, no foul.

 

[Nords]

I see more and more of this type of conclusion. Especially what I hear about the new health plans. Am I being overly suspicious?

I think an elder wanting an H1N1 vaccine is like asking for antibiotics to fight a virus.

Reading "The Great Influenza" about the 1918-20 pandemic, the virus caused immune systems to overreact. Elderly immune systems are a lot less reactive than young adults, so very few (if any) elders succumbed to H1N1. And those who did would probably have not been helped by a vaccine.

As far as your original question,

If you are over 70 stay fit or you will be written off as dead meat

, were you not planning to stay fit after your 70th birthday?

 

[ERD50]

Yes I did read the article...

I didn't mean it in a snarky way, it was just a question. Sorry if it was taken that way.

At a glance, or just reading the headline, one might think rationing was the only reason. But there are medical reasons also. The responses never mentioned the other age-relates issues, so I did wonder if they had got past the headline.

I'm guilty of some headline skimming myself, just too much info out there.

-ERD50

 

[crazy connie]

Apology not needed but truly appreciated. These issues are real and many have passions on the topics we get into here. I can not think of a time when you have been less than gracious kind sir!

Internet aka TMI creation

 

[FinallyRetired]

FWIW:

President Obama sought to reassure older Americans on Tuesday that health reform would not disrupt their Medicare coverage or force them to change doctors.

Obama on Health Care for Seniors - The New Old Age Blog - NYTimes.com

 

[W2R]

FWIW:

President Obama sought to reassure older Americans on Tuesday that health reform would not disrupt their Medicare coverage or force them to change doctors.

Obama on Health Care for Seniors - The New Old Age Blog - NYTimes.com

Good! Now if he can figure out a way to pay for it without raising older Americans' taxes I'll be a happy camper (or, in view of my posts on the RV threads, a happy non-camper! ).

 

[Zathras]

I see more and more of this type of conclusion. Especially what I hear about the new health plans. Am I being overly suspicious?

Save Swine Flu Drugs for Younger Patients, Study Urges - Yahoo! News

Yes, you are overly suspicious.
The H1N1 virus has done the most damage to the younger folks. As such, it only makes sense that when there is a limited supply of the vaccine it go to those for which it will do the most good.

 

[haha]

If the current swine flu pandemic behaves like the 1918 flu, antiviral drugs would not significantly reduce death rates among people older than 65 and, in fact, might cause the H1N1 virus to develop increased drug resistance, according to Stefano Merler, of the Bruno Kessler Foundation in Italy, and his colleagues.

Would you seriously expect then to say, "We don't want to waste precious vaccine on a bunch of codgers and hags?"

This is the age of spin.

Ha

 

[ERD50]

Would you seriously expect then to say, "We don't want to waste precious vaccine on a bunch of codgers and hags?"

This is the age of spin.

Ha

Well, that is true

But this is also the age of the internet, and the spin has spin busters.

I think there is something to it, but then I'm not over 65

-ERD50

 

[cashflo2u2]

Everybody runs right over these words "If the current swine flu pandemic behaves like the 1918 flu,"

Do they make that determination in hindsight? "Whoops, it didn't act like the 1918 flu after all!" Personally, I don't even get flu shots.

 

[cashflo2u2]

As far as your original question, , were you not planning to stay fit after your 70th birthday?

I don't understand the reason for your statement. I see retired people 70 and over that are not keeping themselves fit. I you could call it a rhetorical statement.

 

[Zathras]

Cash, the CDC people I heard on an interview on NPR mentioned that judging from the pattern from what we have seen so far of this flu, it affects those older than 65 much less, and when it does, much less severly.
Granted, this is a new flu, and could mutate and change. But when you have limited supplies, how would you ration the shots? I think basing it on those that are the most severly impacted makes a fair amount of sense.

 

[walkinwood]

Nope you are not. It is in both of the current plans to counsel our elders whenever they have an issue or on mandatory 5 year intervals to understand how to refuse treatment. Also, a review committee to establish appropriate levels of procedures, medicine and care based on age, social choices and prognosis. It appears to be flat out rationing for most so we can provide care standards for all of society in the US.

The bill says that Medicare HAS to COVER Advanced Medical Care Planning services once every 5 years. There is nothing mandatory about it - it is at the request of the Medicare recipient.
See the text of H.R.3200 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
which refers to this section of the Social Security act
Social Security Act §1861

The committee is set up to standardize treatment so that doctors don't have to order a battery of tests just to - depending on your view of doctors - prevent malpractice suits or line their pockets. I don't see how that translates into rationing.

 

[Zoocat]

This particular flu has affected younger people disproportionately in the population. Their more vigorous immune systems make them more vulnerable. I know it seems counterintuitive. But that is the reason for the shift in focus on immunization of younger rather than older people.

Swine Flu Vaccine on Track for Fall: CDC: MedlinePlus
"Unlike seasonal flu, the H1N1 flu continues to pose more problems for younger people, Schuchat added. 'There are a higher attack rates and hospitalizations in younger adults and children,"'she said.
In the Southern Hemisphere, where the winter flu season is under way, cases of H1N1 virus infection are being reported, along with cases of seasonal flu, Schuchat said. 'In the reports we have, the virus continues to affect generally younger people, sparing the elderly to a great extent,' she said.
And, as in the United States, the H1N1 virus is causing severe respiratory problems in the Southern Hemisphere, a trend that's unique to the new strain of flu and not seen in seasonal flu, Schuchat noted. 'We've heard of intensive-care units with many younger people who have this new H1N1 virus.'
Last month, researchers reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that, unlike seasonal flu, the new H1N1 flu strain attacks younger people and can be more severe and deadly in that group."

 

[WhoDaresWins]

I think I read somewhere that those of us born prior to 1957 might have some degree of immunity to the H1N1 virus. I was born in 1954. In any case, when/if the vaccine becomes available I plan to get the flu shot.

 

[Zathras]

I heard the same thing on NPR. The person that was being interviewed indicated that the current guess was that some flu older people were exposed to when young was similar enough to H1N1 to give them some protection.

 

[cashflo2u2]

Last month, researchers reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that, unlike seasonal flu, the new H1N1 flu strain attacks younger people and can be more severe and deadly in that group."

I think this is a key factor- the death rate among a particular age group or vulnerability- not the higher incidence of contraction. Everyone with a lung condition, like asthma, for example, should be top on the list regardless of age.

 

[Zathras]

Yay! So you agree that those most at risk should receive the vacine prior to those less at risk?
Whick would then lead, logically, to the conclusion that those in the highest risk age category should be among the first to receive the vaccine.
In addition, the higher priorities go as well to parents of very young children (who are too young for the vaccine), those with complications which would put people at greater risk and people in the health care industry.

 

[CuppaJoe]

I think I read somewhere that those of us born prior to 1957 might have some degree of immunity to the H1N1 virus. I was born in 1954. In any case, when/if the vaccine becomes available I plan to get the flu shot.

I heard the same thing on NPR. The person that was being interviewed indicated that the current guess was that some flu older people were exposed to when young was similar enough to H1N1 to give them some protection.

Sounds like good news for us geezers. I well remember the flu I had in 1957, was out sick from school for a full week. Also remember a flu at megacorp that I didn't get while the younger folks were dropping like flies; don't remember the year or if it was the same flu. The upside of aging.

I checked my facts, yes, it was 1957, the year and week the Milwaukee Braves won the World Series.

Edit to add link:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hsc-scen-3_pandemic-1957.htm

 

[Zathras]

I wonder if that is the one. 52 years ago, sounds just about right.
There is a benifit to kids being exposed to colds, and dirt, and bugs when young. I wonder if, in this age of disinfecting everything, we are raising kids that will have more issues later in life because their immune system wasn't strengthened when young?

 

[Nords]

There is a benifit to kids being exposed to colds, and dirt, and bugs when young. I wonder if, in this age of disinfecting everything, we are raising kids that will have more issues later in life because their immune system wasn't strengthened when young?

What doesn't kill you...

Scientific American ran an article a few years ago about two approaches to immune systems. One approach builds up antibodies through gradual exposure to all the "childhood illnesses" and other dirty stuff. Remember when parents used to deliberately expose kids to chicken pox or measles so that they could "get it over with" on their schedule? This system appears to work great because its adult products are beneficiaries of its literal survivor bias.

The other approach is the body's hyper-allergic reaction to infection that it hasn't previously built up antibodies to. In most kids that takes the form of juvenile asthma. One concern about today's focus on "antibacterial" and "disinfectant" homes is that kids don't build up immunities and end up reacting with asthma. This phenomenon is very visible because asthma kills fewer kids.

"Antibacterial" and "disinfectant" are also misleading terms. The products wouldn't sell as well if they were advertised as "Kills most weak bacteria and germs while leaving the strong ones to grow & mutate without competition!"

 

[kumquat]

Well, I'm not 70 and I'm not getting the vaccine either. Can't be bothered, check the stats:

H1N1 deaths world wide: 1,466 2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ordinary flu deaths USA: a helluva lot more Deaths from Flu - WrongDiagnosis.com