Insomnia Cure with 80%+ Success Rate for Me

[GregLee]

Without at all meaning to trivialize the problem of insomnia (which I also suffer from), here's a nice old song about it:
Diana Krall - Count Your Blessings Instead of Sheep - YouTube

 

[tangomonster]

I went to a new doctor recently after years of avoiding going for a physical. The doctor asked me what complaints I had---I fortunately have very few but thought I should oblige with something, so I mentioned that I have had insomnia for years and always get less than eight hours sleep. The doctor asked if I wake up tired or get tired during the day. When I said I didn't, she replied that I just need less sleep than the average person and don't have insomnia.

I'm trying to remember this, but it can get frustrating when my husband falls asleep 30 minutes before I do and remains asleep during the night...

 

[a]

The imagery does not really work for me. I think some insomnia is caused by merely needing to distract the mind so it can slip into the phases of sleep - imagery would help there. My insomnia I think has more fundamental physiological causes (chemical?) that won't let such a trick work.

 

[SteveR]

The imagery does not really work for me. I think some insomnia is caused by merely needing to distract the mind so it can slip into the phases of sleep - imagery would help there. My insomnia I think has more fundamental physiological causes (chemical?) that won't let such a trick work.

It does not work for everyone. I believe that chronic insomnia is genetic. My mother has it; I have it; her mother had it. Not definitive proof but very suggestive.

I have found that focusing on something can actually keep me awake because it starts a myriad of thought trains all running in different directions. The less I try to try to go to sleep the better off I am. Actually, allowing my body to relax and allowing my brain to chase its own tail will sometimes assist in bringing on sleep sooner than if I try to force it do do only one thing.

Being really tired also helps as does not eating after dinner or drinking coffee after about 1PM. Alcohol beyond moderate quantities can also make it harder to sleep...unless you drink yourself into a stupor. A couple glasses of wine after dinner helps me at times.

 

[a]

I don't know if you're very lucky or very unlucky. If you really feel rested after your 4-5 hours a night, you are the envy of many people who just want more hours in the day.

I can also swear that I had the ability to go to sleep every night even though I drank several cups of coffee stretching into the late afternoon, for years. Sometime in the last year, a switch flipped in my brain (age?) and I can tell I'll never be able to do that again.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

I stumbled across a technique for getting back to sleep when I've had too much sleep to easily go back to sleep, but not enough for a full night's sleep. My backlog of podcasts was growing, so I started my NPR Planet Money / Fresh Air playlist playing through the cellphone's external speaker. Intended to lie there and listen for a while but fell asleep. Each time I woke up again I listened for a bit then went back to sleep until it felt like that was enough sleep. It's worked each time.

 

[TromboneAl]

I'll try that. What I do, if I'm thinking too much, is concentrate on how comfortable the bed is, or, for example how my left elbow feels. Also deep breathing, and muscle relaxation helps.

For the first half of this year, I was sleeping great. I'd fall asleep right away, and not wake up until morning, feeling refreshed.

Then a month or two ago I started getting into a pattern of waking up around 4 AM, and struggling to get back to sleep. The full pattern was: feel drowsy around 8 PM, barely staying awake while watching TV, go to bed at 9:30, wake up once or twice in the night, and then waken at 4:30.

I attacked it by eliminating all naps, and having plenty of light on until bed time. If I feel drowsy in the evening, I get up and walk around. I very quickly got back to the desired pattern.

Check out these:

Sleep Disorders - Circadian Rhythms and Light Therapy

Amazon.com: The Insomnia Answer: A Personalized Program for Identifying and Overcoming the Three Types ofInsomnia (9780399532979): Paul Glovinsky, Art Spielman: Books

I resurrected this old thread because I have suddenly been hit with the terrible insomnia. I've had many nights in a row with only five hours of sleep or so. If I wake up, I think about not being able to sleep, and the problem just feeds on itself.

I'm using sleep restriction and CBT as described here:

Insomnia Free | Help, Causes, Treatments and Info about Insomnia and Sleep Anxiety

but it's unpleasant. I'm sure I can fix it, but it's going to take a while.

 

[EastWest Gal]

No trouble falling asleep, in general. If I do have trouble, I pull out a medical journal and try to find the most research oriented article in it. Works every time...

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I drink something alkaline. A little Milk of Magnesia with a glass of water always works. So do peppermint and chamomile tea or some sleepytime type teas with combinations of the two. I have noticed I get too wired to sleep when I have an over acid stomach.

 

[athena53]

When I can't sleep I listen to podcasts or books on tape on my ipod. I just use one earplug and have the sound down really low.<snip>
If you are bored, check out the selection of podcasts in iTunes ...the variety of subjects is amazing! ..something for everyone and they are practically all free.
Liz

I LOVE podcasts and subscribe to about a dozen of them, but I have a "mellow music" playlist on my iPod for the occasional bouts of insomnia. Most of the time it works- not as fast as meds, but the huge advantage is that I can use this at 3 AM and not have any sleeping-pill "hangover" when I get up.

ETA: what blew me away was the huge variety of podcasts in languages other than English. If you want to keep up fluency in a foreign language, they're a treasure trove.

 

[steelyman]

I listen to a stream of classical music. It's not boring, but soothing.

 

[HFWR]

I deal with insomnia quite often, but, once FIREd, I'll just sleep when I can.

 

[W2R]

We all know those usual pearls of wisdom about conquering insomnia. Here are some:

1. eliminate caffeine, or cut back after noon
2. do something quiet and peaceful for an hour or two before going to bed; instead of watching that high energy cops'n'robbers show on television, do a crossword puzzle or sudoku, for example.
3. A nice glass of warm milk at bedtime helps some people.
4. Regular hours for bedtime and arising and the rest of one's schedule, helps some people, as does a regular bedtime routine
5. Make sure your bed is extremely comfortable, and the room is quiet with a comfortably cool temperature.
6. If your spouse snores loudly, consider setting up a separate sleeping area for you, where you can get some rest.
7. Naps are nice, but may not be such a great idea if one is battling nighttime insomnia.

And so on. There are many such gems.

After doing everything such as the above, consider this: Maybe you don't really NEED quite so much sleep as you did when you were younger, so don't stress about it. As we grow older, we may need a little less sleep.

Numbers 1,2,4, & 5 above help me a lot.

I normally sleep about 7-1/2 hours, with a 20 minute afternoon nap. However every now and then (maybe once every week or two) I am up all night and only get 1-2 hours. I finally forgave myself for doing this, and decided that maybe I just don't need any more sleep than what I am getting. Works for me. I'm not the same person, physically, as I was when I was 30 and I am not leading nearly as busy and exhausting a life now as I did then, so it makes sense that I would need less sleep.

 

[haha]

I finally forgave myself for doing this, and decided that maybe I just don't need any more sleep than what I am getting. Works for me. I'm not the same person, physically, as I was when I was 30 and I am not leading nearly as busy and exhausting a life now as I did then, so it makes sense that I would need less sleep.

This is supposed to be the general case, but it doesn't seem to be for me. Typically I go to sleep quickly, but wake up 4-6 hours later to pee. It can be a chore to get back to sleep, but I almost always do. In which cases I usually sleep 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 hours total and feel good the next day. Last Friday I went to bed at 11, and didn't wake up until 7:30 the following day. Plenty of sleep one would think, but I was tired all day anyway. I am reluctantly coming to think that when I am active, which is usually, I need 8 1/2 -9 hours minimum to feel mentally and physically tip-top.

The only downside is that it obliterates a lot of evening pursuits.

Ha

 

[TromboneAl]

Consider this: Maybe you don't really NEED quite so much sleep as you did when you were younger, so don't stress about it. As we grow older, we may need a little less sleep.

I believe, now, that this is the source of my problem.

I had often read "Some people say that older people need less sleep, but in fact they need just as much, they just can't sleep as much." Although that doesn't really make sense, I used to believe it.

So, I'd always strive for eight hours, resulting in extra time in bed trying to achieve it. I'd thought that I can't sleep 8 in a row, so I'd try to get seven at night and then take a long nap.

If the latest thinking is correct, then this has messed up my entire system. Once I get back to normal, my goal will be 6.5 to 7 hours. Also, the research I've read says that if I sleep fewer hours, my body will sleep more efficiently, that is, more deeply.

Six years ago, I did a study and concluded that napping was OK:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/my-personal-napping-study-results-37284.html

I no longer believe that.

 

[Bestwifeever]

DH wears a Fitbit Flex which tracks his sleep quality, among other things. Really interesting for him to see patterns in the graphs. Funny when I ask him in the morning how he slept, he looks at the data vs how he feels before he answers.

Here is the site's faq about it:

Help Site - Sleep tracking FAQs

During sleep mode, when your body is completely at rest and unmoving, your Fitbit tracker records that you are asleep.
A restless state of sleep indicates that your body transitioned from a very restful position with little movement to movement, such as turning over in bed. This doesn't necessarily mean that you were fully awake or cognizant of your movements, but it may indicate that you were not getting the most restful sleep possible at that time.
When your tracker indicates that you are moving so much that restful sleep would not be possible, your sleep graph will indicate that you were awake.

 

[Lsbcal]

What has worked for me is to take one Benedryl caplet at about 1AM. I know this is cheating but with slight alergies it helps me to get through the night. No side effects for me, I think. Doc says it's OK to do this.

Here is what my Vivofit showed for last night's activity. Four times up with the second (bump) being when I took the caplet.

 

[TromboneAl]

What has worked for me is to take one Benedryl caplet at about 1AM. I know this is cheating but with slight allergies it helps me to get through the night. No side effects for me, I think. Doc says it's OK to do this.

Here is what my Vivofit showed for last night's activity. Four times up with the second (bump) being when I took the caplet.

My doc also suggested some doxylamine OTC pills (same idea--Unisom Sleep Tab Generic Equivalent). I've taken half a 25 mg pill once or twice. Although they have good reviews at Amazon, many web sites suggest that the sleep they provide is of lower quality, they make you drowsy the next day, and their effectiveness decreases quickly. So I've kept those for emergency only, so far. I don't want to become psychologically dependent on them.

From the graph itself, it looks like you went to bed at 9:40 and slept until 6:50 (9.2 hours), but were awake for 1.5 to 3 hours. Yet the display says you got 8.3 hours of sleep.

Did you get out of bed during those movement periods? Does the "8.3 hrs total sleep" seem right to you, or is that an overestimation?

The awake periods are what I want to avoid: they're boring, unpleasant, and unproductive. Do you feel that way?

For the last two nights, I've slept uninterrupted, but for only six hours. Last night I dreamt (warning, boring dream sequence) that I was an LED light bulb, and that because all of my previous sleeping had been as different varieties of LED light bulbs, if I could determine which LED bulb I was, then I could go back to sleep. It made more sense at the time.

I'm glad I don't need to go to work. Last night I had a gig, but Lena drove me there and back because I don't trust myself to stay awake while driving.

 

[Lsbcal]

...
From the graph itself, it looks like you went to bed at 9:40 and slept until 6:50 (9.2 hours), but were awake for 1.5 to 3 hours. Yet the display says you got 8.3 hours of sleep.

Did you get out of bed during those movement periods? Does the "8.3 hrs total sleep" seem right to you, or is that an overestimation?

I don't know how accurate the width of those sharp peaks are. I did get out of bed at those peak times. Mostly to take a leak but the second one I added taking the Benedryl activity (at 1AM). Doc says I don't have a prostate problem. It's probably that I drink lots of liquids to hydrate and even a glass of milk an hour or two before bed.

I do feel like the 8+ hours of sleep was a reasonable approximation. I'm not sure that it's important to get continuous sleep for me. Maybe I'm in my "cat nap phase" ?

The awake periods are what I want to avoid: they're boring, unpleasant, and unproductive. Do you feel that way?

Well, it's a great time to get interesting ideas. If the idea is good I write it down so that I can now turn off that train of thought.

Usually I've found that when I'm disturbed at maybe 2PM, it is because I'm hot. I pull some covers off, maybe all of them. If that is not working I go get a cold glass of milk. I sleep better when the covers feel welcoming instead of too hot.

For the last two nights, I've slept uninterrupted, but for only six hours. Last night I dreamt (warning, boring dream sequence) that I was an LED light bulb, and that because all of my previous sleeping had been as different varieties of LED light bulbs, if I could determine which LED bulb I was, then I could go back to sleep. It made more sense at the time.

That sounds like a kind of cool dream to me. What colors did you get to?

I think most of us can do with less sleep then we think. Cat napping is OK too. DW seems to worry about not having continuous sleep. I've become more flexible ... I like to think so anyway.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

On those nights when you really need a sleep aid why not use a drug specifically designed for the task, like Ambien - Zolpidem? I make a few hard rules to avoid dependence -
#1 - low dose only ~ 2mgs. - I bite off a chunk and dissolve under the tongue (it is bitter to discourage the kiddies from confusing them with tic tacs).
#2 - Never after 1AM - if I really need dependable sleep and am getting up early, I take a dose before 11PM.
#3 - Never two days in a row or more than 2 times per week.

I am most likely to have trouble sleeping in the waning daylight of the fall season.

As mentioned, temperature is important - too hot = lousy sleep for me.

Getting up to pee wakes me up - my solution - the whiz bottle. I can remain in a state of torpor while attending to the task. Not for everyone and obviously this will only work for about half the population.

Oh, and my Marsona white noise machine - as light sleeper, I prefer not to hear distracting neighborhood noise.

 

[Lsbcal]

On those nights when you really need a sleep aid why not use a drug specifically designed for the task, like Ambien - Zolpidem?
...

Sounds like you have a good approach. Hopefully you aim carefully into that whiz bottle.

The first time I used any sleep medication was the night before interviewing for a job back 17 years ago. It worked like a charm. After that I used them very sparingly.

Now I seem to have developed a side effect to those medications. I get ever so slightly nauseas to food the next day. This happens even with 1/2 pill. Good if you want to go on a diet, which I do not need.

Benedryl works best (for me) and it has no apparent side effects after 5 or so hours of sleep. I would not take it if the time is past 3PM. For me it seems to take 1 hour to take hold so I may be awake for a time.

 

[TromboneAl]

On those nights when you really need a sleep aid why not use a drug specifically designed for the task, like Ambien - Zolpidem?

I won't knock it, but the other day I took a quick look at an insomnia forum. The first thread title I saw was "Last Night I Took Twelve Ambien!"

 

[bjorn2bwild]

I won't knock it, but the other day I took a quick look at an insomnia forum. The first thread title I saw was "Last Night I Took Twelve Ambien!"

You have to know yourself - this would never be a problem for me. I read all kinds of horror stories about Halcyon - worked great for me.

I have been reading quite a few articles in the New Yorker lately - this one (again lengthy) is about a new drug being tested by Merck. Also goes into detail about sleep studies, chemistry and such -

The Big Sleep - The New Yorker

And this shorter one -

A Gene That Makes You Need Less Sleep?

 

[MRG]

I won't knock it, but the other day I took a quick look at an insomnia forum. The first thread title I saw was "Last Night I Took Twelve Ambien!"

And they lived to write about it? Not sure how one would acquire 12 ambien a day, but you can buy anything with enough money.

That's sometimes the problem with those kinds of meds, they become less effective the more you take. I'm not saying an infrequent pill will hurt you, but that may be an example of 'why not'.

 

[TromboneAl]

As an update, I've now had three nights in a row of uninterrupted sleep. For the last two, I got 7.5 hours of sleep each night.

What I've done:
No naps.
Four to eight-mile walks every afternoon.
6 mg melatonin one hour before bed
.5 tablet doxylamine (i.e. 12 mg) before bed.

I'm going to cut out the doxylamine now.

In the past, I concluded that melatonin is not effective, but safe, so what the heck, I'll take it.

The only thing I'm doing that is verboten is not popping out of bed as soon as I wake up. I lie there for a half an hour, warm under the covers listening to the waves with Lena snuggling up. I can't give that up. My rationalization is that since I'm not trying to sleep, I'm allowed to be in bed.