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04-06-2017, 04:12 PM
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#81
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 9,526
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For us it was a big ticket item but we had the money to pay for HI so we jumped. I figured about 1200 a month and about 1200 for drugs a year and it has been half of those numbers. It really wasn't something that would of stopped me from retiring. We have 7 years to pay for insurance before Medicare.
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04-07-2017, 02:26 PM
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#82
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort
Our expenses are more than $64K a year, but we took out a HELOC to cover some of the difference. The interest on the HELOC is much less than we get in subsidies so the math works out for us.
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Taking out a HELOC is part of my retirement plan too. I had the exact same thought about using it as needed to stay under the ACA cliff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
Understood, but Carp said that the insurer would not cover.
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pb4uski, Thanks for the ACA info on dependents. I have to admit that I can't remember now if I was talking to BCBS in relation to an ACA plan or about an individual coverage plan. I'll have to follow up with them again. Our only ACA choices here are 5 different flavors of BCBS coverage. (They're not Anthem owned.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by street
For us it was a big ticket item but we had the money to pay for HI so we jumped. I figured about 1200 a month and about 1200 for drugs a year and it has been half of those numbers. It really wasn't something that would of stopped me from retiring. We have 7 years to pay for insurance before Medicare.
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street, How did you come in under your 1200 a month number for prems? Subsidies?
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04-07-2017, 02:52 PM
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#83
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpediem
Taking out a HELOC is part of my retirement plan too. I had the exact same thought about using it as needed to stay under the ACA cliff.
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We have a Bronze HSA policy, so the HSA account gives us a bit more headroom on the MAGI, along with writing off some hobby business expenses, like the unsubsidized portion of our health insurance premiums. Nontaxable rewards like frequent flyer miles also help give us a little extra headroom.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
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04-13-2017, 11:15 PM
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#84
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 1,866
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When I retired I had a plan and a backup plan. The plan was retiree health care. The backup was ACA. Retiree health care plan was cancelled. I actually have 30k / year budgeted for healthcare (premiums plus OOP max) and I don't think that's enough.
Luckily DH did not ER so he may have to work a few more years until HC is resolved.
__________________
"For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." ~
Hebrews 12:11
ER'd in June 2015 at age 52. Initial WR 3%. 50/40/10 (Equity/Bond/Short Term) AA.
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04-14-2017, 07:06 AM
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#85
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live And Learn
When I retired I had a plan and a backup plan. The plan was retiree health care. The backup was ACA. Retiree health care plan was cancelled. I actually have 30k / year budgeted for healthcare (premiums plus OOP max) and I don't think that's enough.
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The post above got me thinking about budgeting for HC. How do folks budget for HC? Do you budget for a worst case scenario? Do you budget for annual prems + max OOP?
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04-14-2017, 07:27 AM
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#86
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gosport, IN
Posts: 1,218
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Carpediem, we always budgeted annual prems + max OOP and that is why I went PT for the final 3 years to keep employer plan in place. Then we only had 2 yrs to manage under ACA before Medicare
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04-14-2017, 07:47 AM
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#87
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,023
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Curious if anyone sees a problem here? People are budgeting more for their healthcare on ER.org per year than 70% of the general public have as their entire net worth. Either you are wrong and grossly overestimating or we (USA) are about to have big big problems.
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04-14-2017, 07:59 AM
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#88
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion
Curious if anyone sees a problem here? People are budgeting more for their healthcare on ER.org per year than 70% of the general public have as their entire net worth. Either you are wrong and grossly overestimating or we (USA) are about to have big big problems.
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Yes, a pretty stunning and sobering observation!
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04-14-2017, 08:20 AM
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#89
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Austin
Posts: 375
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As 10% of participants of this forum are one percenter, I am not surprised at people's budget on medical expenses.
And 30k IS a realistic number today without subsidies.
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04-14-2017, 08:23 AM
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#90
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Richards
Posts: 1,245
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A question , a very good friend of mine retired earlier then me and explained what he did . He went to each of his doctors and explained he was retired and would pay cash . He bought a very high deductible insurance from the ACA . He keeps a credit card at all time available for the high deductible ( emergency )
Now in February I went for my physical they charged my DW insurance 180.00 . I asked the doctor how much if I pay cash . He told me to talk to his office assistant . It was 84.00 . Now if you do this it seems to reduce the day to day that you pay high insurance premiums for . If I were to buy a 6000.00 deductible ins. from the ACA here it would be around 300.00 per month .
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04-14-2017, 10:16 AM
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#91
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breedlove
A question , a very good friend of mine retired earlier then me and explained what he did . He went to each of his doctors and explained he was retired and would pay cash . He bought a very high deductible insurance from the ACA . He keeps a credit card at all time available for the high deductible ( emergency )
Now in February I went for my physical they charged my DW insurance 180.00 . I asked the doctor how much if I pay cash . He told me to talk to his office assistant . It was 84.00 . Now if you do this it seems to reduce the day to day that you pay high insurance premiums for . If I were to buy a 6000.00 deductible ins. from the ACA here it would be around 300.00 per month .
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Can you clarify how paying cash works for your friend while he has a high deductible health plan? I assume this is Bronze HDHP with HSA perhaps.
Don't all payments need to be submitted to insurance even though you pay the full amount first in order to satisfy the deductible, therefore it is the insurance company amount, not the doctor office' cash amount?
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04-14-2017, 10:20 AM
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#92
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Austin
Posts: 375
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I think health care just give people excuse to delay retirement. Without this, they just find other excuses.
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04-14-2017, 10:44 AM
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#93
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillCountry
I think health care just give people excuse to delay retirement. Without this, they just find other excuses.
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Really I'm curious, how do you pay for your healthcare/insurance and how do you estimate what it will cost you between now and 65?
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04-14-2017, 11:30 AM
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#94
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpediem
The post above got me thinking about budgeting for HC. How do folks budget for HC? Do you budget for a worst case scenario? Do you budget for annual prems + max OOP?
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We decided to budget for "semi-worst" case scenario. Our budget is for a silver plan without subsidies. We include the full cost of the premium, but only 1/2 of the max OOP - with the theory being it is unlikely to hit your max OOP every single year until Medicare age. Possible, yes - but a 50% target seemed more reasonable to us.
I had budgeted for it to increase by 13% yearly, although based upon some more recent rate increases I have seen, this may very well be entirely too optimistic.
I use Fidelity's RIP tool. It increases healthcare expenses by 5.5%/yr. So, I created a spreadsheet that helped me figure out what number I could put in for our pre-Medicare healthcare insurance that would account for the difference between 5.5% vs 13% annual increase in healthcare costs.
For example:
Our estimate for marketplace insurance was $431/mo/pp in premiums with a yearly max OOP of $6350 pp. Half of the max OOP would be $3175, or $265 pp/mo. So, my baseline per person cost would be $431 + $265 = $696 pp/mo.
After applying these numbers to my spreadsheet and increasing costs by 7.5%, I projected that the monthly total expense to enter into Fidelity should be $1240/mo/pp ($14,880 per person annually, so projecting $29,760 total for the two of us per year).
RIP lets you enter a monthly healthcare cost for "x" number of years, then switch to Medicare. So I enter $1240/mo for both my husband and I on separate line items of the budget (2018 to 2029, and 2018 to 2033). I then enter my Medicare projections for us to start at the appropriate year. I do not modify the Medicare amounts because the 5.5% so far appears to be based upon Fidelity's research of how much Medicare is increasing every year.
All this number crunching helps me feel like I am at least making a reasonable effort to plan for something that, unfortunately, is very unpredictable!
Every year that we don't end up spending the amount projected on healthcare will increase our "cushion" for future year's expenses. Hopefully we will not need to meet that max OOP regularly...it is a risk.
My back up plan is:
1) keep working my part-time job the first few years to help defray costs higher than what we project
2) we go back to work full-time for employer sponsored insurance
__________________
simple girl
less stuff, more time
(55, married; Mr. Simple Girl, 59. FIRED 12/31/19!)
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04-14-2017, 11:34 AM
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#95
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan
really I'm curious, how do you pay for your healthcare/insurance and how do you estimate what it will cost you between now and 65?
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+1
__________________
simple girl
less stuff, more time
(55, married; Mr. Simple Girl, 59. FIRED 12/31/19!)
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04-14-2017, 11:37 AM
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#96
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Jose
Posts: 471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillCountry
I think health care just give people excuse to delay retirement. Without this, they just find other excuses.
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I think, it depends. There are people with serious chronic health issues, which have to be careful about health care cost. The cost is rising day by day and ACA will eventually be changed: I don't think anyone would object it. One opportunity is to live abroad: it is not for everyone, it is for people who either have roots in other countries or those ready to overcome many challenges while they are not that young anymore. I also like idea to pay cash to doctors while signing up for insurance with high deductable. But it would work for healthy people: some procedures can be terribly expensive without insurance. I know some people who live close to Mexican border may come across the border for treatment. There is no single solution for all people. There are some solutions, but most people prefer to delay retirement if no solution fit their situation.
__________________
Retired Sep 2023 @56
Target AA: 50% stock / 20% bond / 30% cash
Target WR: ~3.6%
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04-14-2017, 01:30 PM
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#97
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simple girl
After applying these numbers to my spreadsheet and increasing costs by 7.5%, I projected that the monthly total expense to enter into Fidelity should be $1240/mo/pp ($14,880 per person annually, so projecting $29,760 total for the two of us per year).
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Thank you, simple girl. Those are some sobering figures to digest. I currently have $20k/year estimated for HC expenses when I retire and I'm starting to realize that's probably too low.
Has anyone considered going with a HDHP plan and 'supplementing it' with a Health Share program like Liberty Healthshare? Would that work?
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04-14-2017, 02:37 PM
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#98
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 206
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The healthcare mess in the US is delaying our retirement. Having to budget $25,000/year for healthcare when all our other expenses are only $25,000/year is rediculous. I think that amount is fairly accurate though as the premiums for my large group HDHP policy are $17,500 for a couple or family plus another $5,200 for the Max OOP. Unfortunately we cannot stay on the policy past COBRA, and will have to fend for ourselves eventually. Leaving the US to obtain affordable healthcare is one option we will look at. Yes, the US is in trouble with respect to the cost of healthcare and our overall GDP.
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04-14-2017, 03:07 PM
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#99
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 1,389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion
Curious if anyone sees a problem here? People are budgeting more for their healthcare on ER.org per year than 70% of the general public have as their entire net worth. Either you are wrong and grossly overestimating or we (USA) are about to have big big problems.
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I used ACA for 2 years and you are not overestimating. It sent me back to work PT.
__________________
Retired in 2013 and we are living the dream!
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04-14-2017, 04:29 PM
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#100
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Weatherford Texas
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming of Freedom
The healthcare mess in the US is delaying our retirement. Having to budget $25,000/year for healthcare when all our other expenses are only $25,000/year is rediculous. I think that amount is fairly accurate though as the premiums for my large group HDHP policy are $17,500 for a couple or family plus another $5,200 for the Max OOP. Unfortunately we cannot stay on the policy past COBRA, and will have to fend for ourselves eventually. Leaving the US to obtain affordable healthcare is one option we will look at. Yes, the US is in trouble with respect to the cost of healthcare and our overall GDP.
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I feel your pain. My projected HI expenses at ER in early 2019 are $1850 per month for the company retiree helpcare plan. The rest of our expenses including mortgage, electric, and normal recurring expenses plus $1000/mo for food, $600/mo for gasoline and $500/mo hobby expense is $3500/mo for a total of $~5200/mo.
Our HI budget includes premiums and OOP max for the family. Every time i want to cuss about the company retiree health plan i just run a ACA exchange calculation and realize it aint bad in context to what is available to me.
__________________
Retired June 1, 2018
RE AA 65/35
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