After reading a recent post about differing state requirements for health care, I am wondering how Universal Health Care would work -- like Medicare. More importantly, I do not want the government running my health care. Other than the IRS, the government, by its very nature, is ineffecient and incompetent --- look at Katrini. There must be a better way.
Is Univeral Health Care the answer?????
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kcowan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
So are you agitating to get rid of Medicare?
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Medicare works well. I never had easier more seamless access to care before went on Medicare.
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Ha
Would you like doctor-patient confidentiality or any other privacy privileges with that?OldMcDonald said:
BTW the doctor would like to see you for your annual physical assessment, smoking-cessation warning, and "responsible use of alcohol" refresher training now.
But you'll only pay $40/month and a $12 copay!
OldMcDonald said:Whats your opinion of the government run military? Also incompetent?
Maybe we should turn over control to a effecient for-profit corporation...like Enron, or Worldcom, or Global Crossing....
I thought the Generals ran the military. Are you saying -- Bush, Harry Reid, Nancy P., Cheney.etc. are running the military?? YIKES
How about going to a VA Hospital or Walter Reed for your health care?? There is how the government handles their heroes.
Sorry -- we can go on forever like this and it is unproductive.
I am worrying about politicans meddling in our health care in such a way as to lead to higher and higher cost with less services and longer waits for testing. I'm in favor of a system that expands consumer choice, manageable costs, and allows medical progress to continue.
After folks lose/leave their jobs, they do not want their health care to stop. It is this fear that causes Americans to tell pollsters that they favor UHC. I understand that,however, collectively we should come up with a better system-- maybe mandatory private health care -- not sure.
Sorry -- we can go on forever like this and it is unproductive.
I am worrying about politicans meddling in our health care in such a way as to lead to higher and higher cost with less services and longer waits for testing. I'm in favor of a system that expands consumer choice, manageable costs, and allows medical progress to continue.
After folks lose/leave their jobs, they do not want their health care to stop. It is this fear that causes Americans to tell pollsters that they favor UHC. I understand that,however, collectively we should come up with a better system-- maybe mandatory private health care -- not sure.
There are numerous proposals being kicked around, some of which I think have merit.
If we are stuck having insurance companies, then I lean towards favoring Senator Wyden's plan:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=11033.msg202189#msg202189
Not a lot of detailed info from the current presidential candidates yet.
Whatever we do, we have to get our arms around the huge medical cost increases of the past decade.
If we are stuck having insurance companies, then I lean towards favoring Senator Wyden's plan:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=11033.msg202189#msg202189
Not a lot of detailed info from the current presidential candidates yet.
Whatever we do, we have to get our arms around the huge medical cost increases of the past decade.
There is a big difference between government run health care facilities, and universal coverage in which everyone gets coverage, but the health care professionals are all private sector employees.
How much of the equipment used by the military (for example) is actually made by the military, probably some but overwelmingly private sector talent produces the equipment and sells it.
Most of the highways in this country are also not built by government employees...private sector companies do the work and I don't have too many complaints about the highways around me.
If the US taxpayers can pay for and get a first class military (run by the government), then the US taxpayers can get a first class health care system too. They just need to demand it, and be willing to pay for it.
Very few people who advocate for universal coverage/single payer system are suggesting that everyone that works in the health care profession would be converted into a govt employee.
I get my health care thru Blue Cross/Blue Shield...never once in 20+ years I have had my policy have I seen a BC/BS employee at any of my doctor's offices. If we had a single payer/universal coverage system I wouldn't expect to see a government employee at my doctors office either.
How much of the equipment used by the military (for example) is actually made by the military, probably some but overwelmingly private sector talent produces the equipment and sells it.
Most of the highways in this country are also not built by government employees...private sector companies do the work and I don't have too many complaints about the highways around me.
If the US taxpayers can pay for and get a first class military (run by the government), then the US taxpayers can get a first class health care system too. They just need to demand it, and be willing to pay for it.
Very few people who advocate for universal coverage/single payer system are suggesting that everyone that works in the health care profession would be converted into a govt employee.
I get my health care thru Blue Cross/Blue Shield...never once in 20+ years I have had my policy have I seen a BC/BS employee at any of my doctor's offices. If we had a single payer/universal coverage system I wouldn't expect to see a government employee at my doctors office either.
janeeyre said:
Lots of changes at the VA over the last few years. Now some say that is where to go for the best care: http://www.nihp.org/
Oh, the National Institute of Health Policy is chaired by Dave Durenberger, a former moderate republican senator.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I am reading a very difficult but provocative book by the late economist Hyman Minsky. He says that the all large capital intensive sectors of the US economy are in fact socialized, it is just a socialism to benefit business rather than people. Fascist would be a less careful term.
As he points out, banks won't finance the large fixed investments needed by hospitals, etc, without some guarantee of market power so that prices can be increased to allow enough cash flows to service the debt.
There are many ways market power can be maintained, but government guarantees, myriad government rules and regulations which whatever else they may do also restrict entry of competitors into a market, access to financing implicitly or explicitly guaranteed by some level of government-all play a part.
He feels, as I do, that since we the taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for most of this-that we should have a say in how it is delivered, financed, limited, etc. And maybe what we are willing to pay the executives and even the doctors themselves. Face it; employer paid health insurance is ultimately a tax on the consumer, in that the corporation has no source of funds other than its sales, so its prices must be high enough to pay for whatever health costs it incurs.
That we have 40 million uninsured citizens is a real knock on the intelligence of American voters. Have to climb outside of the box folks!
Ha
As he points out, banks won't finance the large fixed investments needed by hospitals, etc, without some guarantee of market power so that prices can be increased to allow enough cash flows to service the debt.
There are many ways market power can be maintained, but government guarantees, myriad government rules and regulations which whatever else they may do also restrict entry of competitors into a market, access to financing implicitly or explicitly guaranteed by some level of government-all play a part.
He feels, as I do, that since we the taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for most of this-that we should have a say in how it is delivered, financed, limited, etc. And maybe what we are willing to pay the executives and even the doctors themselves. Face it; employer paid health insurance is ultimately a tax on the consumer, in that the corporation has no source of funds other than its sales, so its prices must be high enough to pay for whatever health costs it incurs.
That we have 40 million uninsured citizens is a real knock on the intelligence of American voters. Have to climb outside of the box folks!
Ha
My insurance is a PPO -Blue Cross Blue Shield --- I worked many years for it and I don't want to give it up. I had a recent breast cancer scare and I wanted the flexibility of multiple opinions so that I could make an informed decision. And I got it and I am grateful for my health insurance. I do not believe I would have the same opportunities under a Universal Plan. When I was in the hospital (Univ of Pa), I met a lady who was staying in a local hotel while she sought health care choices. She was from Ottowa and said that she could afford to seek better health care in a timely manner. Her comments were a cause for alarm to me.
I think everyone has a personal philosophy regarding insurance and health coverage. Mine is -- I want the catastrophic covered. I will pay for the office visits. And most of all, I want to choose. I don't want governmental policies to dictate my options.
I think everyone has a personal philosophy regarding insurance and health coverage. Mine is -- I want the catastrophic covered. I will pay for the office visits. And most of all, I want to choose. I don't want governmental policies to dictate my options.
Although we have a friend that recently had bypass surgery in a VA hospital in Minnesota and he praised his treatment, the VA hospitals have had major problems recently.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index.html
MasterBlaster
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I was just reading the DMV horror story thread.
Anyone that believes in a Universal/single payer healthcare model should read that thread. The DMV-style treatment is what you are asking for.
Anyone that believes in a Universal/single payer healthcare model should read that thread. The DMV-style treatment is what you are asking for.
janeeyre said:
What choices do you want? Sometimes people talk about choice and I am not sure what they are talking about. Choice in and of itself is not important. Quality is important. Right now we have a system that compensates by procedures, not by quality or outcomes.
Cities with more cardiologists per capita (more choice, easier to see the cardiologist) don't necessarily have better outcomes with heart disease than cities with fewer cardiologists.
Masterblaster, there is a big difference, as OldMcD said, between having government employ the medical personnel versus government reimbursement.
I know at the doctors office I go to, 30-35% of the patients seen there are on Masshealth (massachusetts "free" health care for poor folks). They come in, see the same doctors as me(sometimes better since my plan doesn't cover dental and Masshealth does), have pretty much the same choices I have, and presumably get the same care, and the same experience as I do....this is a "government run" health care system on a small scale.
I just don't see the problem from a quality of care point of view.
I just don't see the problem from a quality of care point of view.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
My FIL and MIL have TriCare and coujld and have gone elsewhere, but for the most pat they go to Walter Reed. W.R. must be doing something right- FIL is 93!
Ha
Ha
perinova
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To me Universal Health care just means everyone covered. so: YES.
Nothing to do with quality of care. This question is a health insurance issue.
Nothing to do with quality of care. This question is a health insurance issue.
tomz
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A: Yes
B: As Martha says, Walter Reed is an army hospital, not a VA hospital. The VA hospital system is highly respected by medical professionals. The article in G below mentions this.
C: 51% of our healthcare expenditure of $1.7 trillion (as of 2003) was taxpayer money, but is not spent in a rational manner.
D. 45+ million people in this country have no health insurance. We ration, but it is economic rationing not anything rational.
E. We spend way more per capita than any other industrial nation on healthcare.
F. GM spends roughly $1400 per car on healthcare. Their profit per car is $178. Toyota's profit per car is $1742. Japan has national health insurance.
G. There is a difference between national health insurance and socialized medicine. England has socialized medicine. Germany, France, Holland and lots of others have national health insurance. Read The Health of Nations by Ezra Klein for an overview of health insurance in other countries.
H. 20% of the patients consume 80% of the dollars spent.
I. I think the Postal service does a pretty good job.
Read Money Driven Medicine by Maggie Mahar, which is the source for most of these facts.
B: As Martha says, Walter Reed is an army hospital, not a VA hospital. The VA hospital system is highly respected by medical professionals. The article in G below mentions this.
C: 51% of our healthcare expenditure of $1.7 trillion (as of 2003) was taxpayer money, but is not spent in a rational manner.
D. 45+ million people in this country have no health insurance. We ration, but it is economic rationing not anything rational.
E. We spend way more per capita than any other industrial nation on healthcare.
F. GM spends roughly $1400 per car on healthcare. Their profit per car is $178. Toyota's profit per car is $1742. Japan has national health insurance.
G. There is a difference between national health insurance and socialized medicine. England has socialized medicine. Germany, France, Holland and lots of others have national health insurance. Read The Health of Nations by Ezra Klein for an overview of health insurance in other countries.
H. 20% of the patients consume 80% of the dollars spent.
I. I think the Postal service does a pretty good job.
Read Money Driven Medicine by Maggie Mahar, which is the source for most of these facts.
Is the Mass. health care program considered a "mandatory private health care" system? Does that mean you pick your health care program like you would choose a car insurance company?
I was fortunate because the doctor I chose accepted my insurance but didn't accept many other plans. Therefore, (for example) under a mandatory private program, then, I could chose what I currently have.
I was fortunate because the doctor I chose accepted my insurance but didn't accept many other plans. Therefore, (for example) under a mandatory private program, then, I could chose what I currently have.
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