Just found out I'm Type II

[Fedup]

Apparently I misunderstood. I thought Fedup was saying her BIL was eating a lot of cake to reverse it.

I'm sorry, that does sound too good to be true.

 

[oldtrig]

There is no such thing as Reversing Type 2 Diabetes. Once you have the disease you will always have it. You can fake the doctors off by exercising and low carb diet .

Go back to your old ways and it comes back. Anyone that thinks any different is in denial. The denial thing is one thing that most of us experience at one time or the other. Want to know how I know that

I have heard people tell me that they were not diabetic anymore. I just laugh and walk away. I have also heard people refer to a person as a bad diabetic. Don't think I have ever seen a good one

Most people who just found out about this disease don't want to change their eating habits . What I have found it over these years is I got to keep moving. Some days that is hard especially as I age.

It is sort of like the old oil filter commercial that was aired years ago. You can pay me know or pay me later

 

[Fedup]

I think revert type II diabetes means not having to take medicine to control it. I'm sure people still have to watch what they eat. But that's the best one can hope for.
Also not all people with diabetes are overweight either. My BIL was thin. But I think stress of running a business must be part of it.

 

[audreyh1]

There is no such thing as Reversing Type 2 Diabetes. Once you have the disease you will always have it. You can fake the doctors off by exercising and low carb diet .

Go back to your old ways and it comes back. Anyone that thinks any different is in denial. The denial thing is one thing that most of us experience at one time or the other. Want to know how I know that

I have heard people tell me that they were not diabetic anymore. I just laugh and walk away. I have also heard people refer to a person as a bad diabetic. Don't think I have ever seen a good one

Most people who just found out about this disease don't want to change their eating habits . What I have found it over these years is I got to keep moving. Some days that is hard especially as I age.

It is sort of like the old oil filter commercial that was aired years ago. You can pay me know or pay me later

Well, these articles are clearly informing us otherwise.

If you can heal the pancreas and liver so that your body response to blood sugar is normal, then you don't have diabetes any more.

What's fascinating is that fasting gets the fat out of the liver and pancreas, and the pancreas is able to start acting normally again! And the process is pretty quick too.

 

[harley]

Well, these articles are clearly informing us otherwise.

If you can heal the pancreas and liver so that your body response to blood sugar is normal, then you don't have diabetes any more.

What's fascinating is that fasting gets the fat out of the liver and pancreas, and the pancreas is able to start acting normally again! And the process is pretty quick too.

I think she's assuming diabetes is like alcoholism. They say once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. May or may not be true. But I'm with you. If you don't have the symptoms, and your body is processing food without needing meds, you aren't diabetic. Otherwise anyone who is genetically predisposed to diabetes would be a diabetic, whether they ever displayed any symptoms or not. Reversing diabetes is just like reversing obesity. Just because you can recreate it by eating too much again, doesn't mean you're obese when your weight is down in the normal range.

 

[audreyh1]

I think she's assuming diabetes is like alcoholism. They say once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. May or may not be true. But I'm with you. If you don't have the symptoms, and your body is processing food without needing meds, you aren't diabetic. Otherwise anyone who is genetically predisposed to diabetes would be a diabetic, whether they ever displayed any symptoms or not. Reversing diabetes is just like reversing obesity. Just because you can recreate it by eating too much again, doesn't mean you're obese when your weight is down in the normal range.

Well the mantra:

There is no such thing as Reversing Type 2 Diabetes. Once you have the disease you will always have it. You can fake the doctors off by exercising and low carb diet .

is right out of the ADA playbook (except the faking the doctors part) and that is what they still preach.

Clearly they are wrong.

If the pancreas can be healed such that cell function returns to normal, then I don't see how you could call that anything other than a reversal.

 

[oldtrig]

I will say it one more time. There is no such thing as Reversing Type 2 Diabetes. "The term 'reversal' is used when people can go off medication but still must engage in a lifestyle program in order to stay off the medication. Once those Beta cells have been destroyed there is no repairing.

Like someone said it has nothing to do with being overweight but being overweight can help this disease move on in.

The key to being on top of this is to nip in early before those B/S 's are way high. If that happens then people tend to have problems keeping it under control.

I am sure not going to argue with anyone over something as serious as diabetes . It is nothing to be taken lightly. One thing to remember that is a fact . Type 2 diabetes is seen as a progressive condition.

I have known I had diabetes for over 14 years. I said I have known. I probably had it much longer but I caught it early which is the key to control many times. I have never taken any meds to control it. Only diet and exercise . Will I continue to be able to do this without meds.? I doubt it as I move into my 70's this year but one can only hope. Cheers.

 

[audreyh1]

I will say it one more time. There is no such thing as Reversing Type 2 Diabetes. "The term 'reversal' is used when people can go off medication but still must engage in a lifestyle program in order to stay off the medication. Once those Beta cells have been destroyed there is no repairing.

Like someone said it has nothing to do with being overweight but being overweight can help this disease move on in.

The key to being on top of this is to nip in early before those B/S 's are way high. If that happens then people tend to have problems keeping it under control.

I am sure not going to argue with anyone over something as serious as diabetes . It is nothing to be taken lightly. One thing to remember that is a fact . Type 2 diabetes is seen as a progressive condition.

I have known I had diabetes for over 14 years. I said I have known. I probably had it much longer but I caught it early which is the key to control many times. I have never taken any meds to control it. Only diet and exercise . Will I continue to be able to do this without meds.? I doubt it as I move into my 70's this year but one can only hope. Cheers.

So you are quoting a doctor quote in a WebMD article as you authoritative source not to be refuted? No new evidence or findings to be considered and explored? End of story?

To me that sounds like current conventional medical thinking, and conventional medicine is challenged with new information all the time, and evolves.

People with type 1 diabetes have their beta cells destroyed by autoimmune response but in type 2 diabetes the cells are impaired, not necessarily destroyed.

Can Beta Cells be Healed?

Beta cells in Type 2
People with Type 2, however, recover beta cell function all the time. A study done in Seattle found that beta cells subjected to high glucose levels (about 288 mg/dl in a test tube) lost function rapidly. But when switched to a low-glucose environment (about 15 mg/dl), most of them recovered normal insulin production.

The longer the cells had stayed in the sugary solution, the longer it took them to recover. The researchers said that the damage might be irreversible after too much time in the glucose bath. They couldn’t say how long that time would be.

In 2011, a widely-reported British study found that beta cells recovered in a couple of weeks in most (not all) people eating 600 calories a day. Most of these people had been diagnosed with Type 2 fairly recently.

Can Beta Cells Be Healed?

 

[Fedup]

I feel better already, I somehow managed to eat 3 donuts in one day last week from my bridge club.

 

[audreyh1]

I've got a number of friends that are vegetarians, as well as celiacs disease sufferers. You can go gluten free without going low carb quite easily. When DW went GF for awhile, she was eating all these Namaste brand cakes and breads and such. They were delicious, sometimes better than the wheat flour versions. But man were they sweet! I especially liked the brownies and the carrot/spice cake mix. You can easily eat vegetarian without avoiding sugar/carbs. As a matter of fact, when I started my current eating style I googled a bunch of vegetarian dishes, and they all had too many carbs for me to be able to eat them. So I could see a vegetarian cutting back on certain things and eating a little meat, and getting their numbers to improve.

Gluten free just means quit eating wheat, rye, barley (no beer!) and anything else that has gluten like soy sauce (you can use tamari instead which doesn't have wheat), gravies and breading made with wheat flour. If you're quite sensitive you might buy certified gluten-free oats that hasn't been grown with wheat or processed in a factory that processes wheat.

But there are plenty of gluten-free starches: rice, corn, oats, potatoes, many other grains. You can continue eating a very high carb diet that is gluten free. Sugar is gluten-free as is alcohol except beer and anything made with the gluten grains.

But you can easily go low-carb and gluten free by cutting out the bread and beer and not using substitutes, and keeping limits on other grains/starches. So a gluten free diet can very easily be accommodated by a low-carb diet.

Those gluten-free bread substitutes - horrible really. You really can't reproduce that chewy gluten characteristic of leavened wheat/rye bread.

BTW - I dared to try a gluten-free beer once. It was made in Belgium, so I figured it couldn't be too bad. And actually it was more than satisfying - not bad at all!

 

[dixonge]

Well the mantra:

is right out of the ADA playbook (except the faking the doctors part) and that is what they still preach.

Clearly they are wrong.

If the pancreas can be healed such that cell function returns to normal, then I don't see how you could call that anything other than a reversal.

In some ways, it seems simpler than that. Here's a snip from this article:

Type 2 diabetes is caused by fat accumulating in the pancreas, researchers show. They add that losing less than one gram of that fat through weight loss reverses the diabetes.

(that is one gram *from the pancreas* - not overall)

There's no mention of beta cells, even though the average time after diagnosis was 6.9 years and longest time was 15 years. Obviously once your beta cells are damaged (or gone) then you're probably in a non-reversible state.

I wonder what factors cause one person to get a fatty pancreas at a lower weight vs. a heavily obese person who does not. I'm sure genetics and perhaps diet play a role. Maybe obese vegans are better protected? Fat vs carbs vs protein?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151201141231.htm

 

[audreyh1]

In some ways, it seems simpler than that. Here's a snip from this article:



(that is one gram *from the pancreas* - not overall)

There's no mention of beta cells, even though the average time after diagnosis was 6.9 years and longest time was 15 years. Obviously once your beta cells are damaged (or gone) then you're probably in a non-reversible state.

I wonder what factors cause one person to get a fatty pancreas at a lower weight vs. a heavily obese person who does not. I'm sure genetics and perhaps diet play a role. Maybe obese vegans are better protected? Fat vs carbs vs protein?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151201141231.htm

I'm not actually saying anything different - just another layer of detail. The paper from the first Newcastle study was titled:

Reversal of type 2 diabetes: normalisation of beta cell function in association with decreased pancreas and liver triacylglycerol

Here is a copy of that first paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743/

The beta cells are what is responsible for insulin secretion in the pancreas. In your linked article:

Previous work by Professor Taylor and his team highlighted the importance of weight loss through diet in reversing Type 2 diabetes. This work in 2011 transformed the thinking in diabetes as it was the first time that it had been demonstrated that diet could remove fat clogging up the pancreas allowing normal insulin secretion to be restored.

"Allowing normal insulin secretion to be restored" is just another way of saying the beta cells were restored to normal healthy function.

 

[eytonxav]

Well the mantra:

is right out of the ADA playbook (except the faking the doctors part) and that is what they still preach.

Clearly they are wrong.

If the pancreas can be healed such that cell function returns to normal, then I don't see how you could call that anything other than a reversal.

I assume old trig is saying that once your diabetic you will always be susceptible to return to being diabetic should you go back to your old ways of eating and not exercising. I would think that is a reasonable conclusion.

 

[audreyh1]

I assume old trig is saying that once your diabetic you will always be susceptible to return to being diabetic should you go back to your old ways of eating and not exercising. I would think that is a reasonable conclusion.

I think there is a big difference between saying you could become diabetic again (of course!), and saying once diabetic always diabetic and your pancreas will never be normal again - once impaired can't be cured, which is what the ADA basically says (type II diabetes is progressive and incurable - no going back).

 

[braumeister]

what the ADA basically says (type II diabetes is progressive and incurable - no going back).

Which may very well be true, if you follow their guidelines.

 

[plsprius]

For those interested in the plant-based view of the cause(s) of type II diabetes, this summary was published today. The article contains numerous links to the published science literature for further reading: How Exactly Does Type 2 Diabetes Develop? | NutritionFacts.org

In brief, the author writes

"Insulin resistance is the cause of both prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. Ok, so what is the cause of insulin resistance? Insulin resistance is now accepted to be closely associated with the accumulation of fat within our muscle cells. This fat toxicity inside of our muscles is a major factor in the cause of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes, as it interferes with the action of insulin.​

Thus, losing weight--by any means--is the key to slowing/reversing/curing type II diabetes (but NOT type I--or any diabetes caused by lack of insulin production).

 

[eytonxav]

I think there is a big difference between saying you could become diabetic again (of course!), and saying once diabetic always diabetic and your pancreas will never be normal again - once impaired can't be cured, which is what the ADA basically says (type II diabetes is progressive and incurable - no going back).

The other question with respect to reversing things, does the insurance industry then declare you free of previous pre-existing condition. By the way, are you or were you ever diabetic?

 

[oldtrig]

I don't think anyone would ever see this on a forum to fill out when changing doctors
were you ever diabetic?

 

[harley]

The other question with respect to reversing things, does the insurance industry then declare you free of previous pre-existing condition. By the way, are you or were you ever diabetic?

That's a good question. I think once it's on your permanent record, you may be hosed from an insurance POV. I don't think you can be a pilot with diabetes, and I'd be curious if you'd be able to if you used to be diabetic. I guess when you fill out the forms you could answer no truthfully. But I don't know about liability. This is something I've been curious about for awhile.

It always makes me think of the late, great Mitch Hedberg.

 

[audreyh1]

Well - just as if you've been successfully treated for cancer. It may be gone, but I suspect it would always be considered a pre-existing condition by the insurance companies. "Have you ever been diagnosed with cancer".

 

[eytonxav]

Its a mystery to me, and while I crossed the line to being declared diabetic years ago, 3 months after that point I've been recording numbers that are pre-diabetic, and in the case of A1Cs, those are occasionally normal. I doubt the insurance industry or Drs would say I am not a diabetic. This idea of no longer being diabetic is probably more of a semantical argument than anything else. As far as cancer, if you get rid of the cancer I suppose it could come back, but I would also think your in for a lifetime of careful evaluation thereafter, which is the same for diabetes.

 

[wolf]

Just my 2 cents. Would be nice if comments were from actual type 2 people. Keep comments short. List what worked. Facts. Keep opinions to a minimum.

 

[Amethyst]

Sorry, Wolf. This topic is of interest to people who have diabetes risk factors, even if they haven't yet developed the disease.

I suspect that once you have gone over the diabetic cliff, you may be able to reverse the condition with diet and exercise, but you will always be more sensitive to sugar than non-diabetics. Still, it is better than being sick.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I don't know if this helps but my dad was diagnosed with T2 diabetes. He followed a low glycemic index diet regimen, gradually lost some weight eating better, and took glyburide for the rest of his life. He eventually only tested his blood sugar twice a week, and it was always around 100. His health was far more adversely affected by his smoking than the diabetes.

 

[harley]

Just my 2 cents. Would be nice if comments were from actual type 2 people. Keep comments short. List what worked. Facts. Keep opinions to a minimum.

You must not have been paying attention for the past 11 years. First, I personally am largely incapable of keeping my comments short, and I think that's a common failing. And as far as what works, there are no facts. I've been eating differently (low carb, high fat, medium protein) and have been losing some weight. But what's making my fasting blood glucose go down? Is it eating fewer carbs? More fat? Losing weight? Positive attitude? The fact that I gave up booze for Lent? Who knows? And what works for me may or may not work for others. Hell, it may not even continue to work for me, although I hope so. And I suspect 98% of what gets posted on ER.org is opinion, even when presented as fact.

In general, IMO weight loss and lower carbs are a good bet for helping FBG levels. But it's just a WAG. If there was a solid answer, we'd be all over it.