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Old 11-01-2014, 06:14 PM   #121
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I disagree. It depends on the people going into quarantine. The medical professionals probably don't need it. The military possibly do. Remember that the brave guys that fight our wars are mostly just a bunch of kids. The "mature" ones are in their early 20s. The rest are younger. They do stupid stuff at that age. I know we did. I'm assuming that the medical pros won't. That's my reasoning. Hagel is doing it cos he knows he has a bunch of kids in that group he's sending and because "he can".
I agree with you on this point. Someone responded to one of my posts by saying we shouldn't leave monitoring and quarantine issues up to individuals. My position is, that at this time, those knowledgeable and experienced health care workers returning from west Africa know what they need to do to behave responsibly with regard to their health status.

The general public, those who are "science challenged", and, yes, many of those in the military may not know what to do. If the military or anyone in the general public want to get the training to bring them up to speed with the returning doctors and nurses from west Africa then maybe I would feel better about them running around on their own.

Ebola wasn't spread in west Africa because the doctors and nurses were spreading it. It was being spread by ordinary people who weren't familiar with the disease, didn't understand what was be told to them about the disease and who were doing perfectly natural acts of caring for their sick children, burying their dead, and even just cleaning up and doing the laundry.

Having said that, I assume that many of the military personnel have little contact with Ebola patients. They probably have logistical jobs. They are probably going to be OK as were all of the secondary exposures of people in Dallas. I would think the military could modify their procedures depending on the particular jobs done by their personnel.
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Old 11-01-2014, 07:46 PM   #122
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Of the more than 700 international staff who have worked in our Ebola projects, Dr. Spencer is the first and thus far the only.





So dr. Spencer was the only one & on the next page










October 22, 2014









On Monday, October 20, medical doctor and Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) field worker Silje Lehne Michalsen was discharged from Oslo University Hospital, Ulleval. She was treated for Ebola hemorrhagic fever after having contracted the disease in Sierra Leone in early October.
Michalsen is now fully recovered and no longer contagious.





So which is it ? I think Doctors without Borders may be not accurate with their facts .
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:17 PM   #123
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We're going to have to disagree on this point. I will not cede that a returning U.S. servicemember is less likely to behave responsibly than a random traveler entering the US from Africa.

We were not talking about random travelers. The comparison was to medical professionals.


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Old 11-01-2014, 08:19 PM   #124
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Agree. If soldiers were as sloppy about following protocol as doctors are, they would all be dead.


Ha

Soldiers aren't trained for this. All it takes is one 18 yr old acting like an 18 yr old.


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Old 11-01-2014, 08:23 PM   #125
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If we can't or won't trust MSF then we are all in trouble. They have been there, they are there, and they know more about Ebola from hands on experience than anyone. Here is a Q&A page from their website:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org...nd-protocols#5
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:49 PM   #126
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In recent months there have been 8 cases of Ebola in the US:


Thomas Duncan: Not a medical care practitioner, came to US from Liberia

Dr Craig Spencer: Medical care provider, contracted Ebola in Guinea where he worked for Doctors without Borders.

Nina Pham: Nurse, contracted Ebola while treating Thomas Duncan. Treated and released.

Amber Vinson: Nurse, contracted Ebola while treating Thomas Duncan. Treated and released.

Dr Kent Brantly: U.S. doctor who contracted Ebola in Liberia. Was flown to the US, treated in Emory hospital, survived.

Nancy Writebol: Missionary, contracted Ebola in Liberia. Was flown to the US, treated at Emory, survived. From CBS news: "Writebol worked at the mission hospital and was tasked with helping make sure the doctors and nurses who were treating Ebola patients were properly dressed and decontaminated."

Dr Rick Sacra: US doctor who contracted Ebola in Liberia. Was flown to the US, treated as Nebraska Medical Center and ultimately survived.

Ashoko Mukpo, freelance cameraman for NBC, contracted Ebola in Liberia, flown to US, treated in Nebraska Medical Center and released 23 Oct.

The vast majority of Ebola cases in the US to date have been among health care workers, people who (we are told by the CDC and various NGOs with whom these people work) have the necessary equipment and training to avoid infection. Maybe the general public's distrust of the experts/protocols/discipline has a rational basis? Do MSF/other NGOs have a built-in incentive to under-report or to over-report the infection rates among their personnel?
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:58 PM   #127
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Of the more than 700 international staff who have worked in our Ebola projects, Dr. Spencer is the first and thus far the only.
...
So which is it ? I think Doctors without Borders may be not accurate with their facts .
.
Dr. Spencer is the first and only international staff member to have developed symptoms since leaving West Africa. The other two international staff member were found to have Ebola while in county and then sent home to their home countries for treatment. Although they do present a small threat to health care folks taking care of them, they present no threat the general population.

There is nothing inaccurate with their full statement.
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:59 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
Of the more than 700 international staff who have worked in our Ebola projects, Dr. Spencer is the first and thus far the only.

So dr. Spencer was the only one & on the next page


October 22, 2014

On Monday, October 20, medical doctor and Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) field worker Silje Lehne Michalsen was discharged from Oslo University Hospital, Ulleval. She was treated for Ebola hemorrhagic fever after having contracted the disease in Sierra Leone in early October.
Michalsen is now fully recovered and no longer contagious.

So which is it ? I think Doctors without Borders may be not accurate with their facts .
I don't think there is any inaccuracy at all. Actually the MSF/DWB said on October 23 (third paragraph here: MSF Protocols for Staff Returning from Ebola-Affected Countries | MSF USA ):

Quote:
Until today, out of more than 700 expatriate staff deployed so far to West Africa, no MSF staff person has developed confirmed Ebola symptoms after returning to their home country. While some MSF staff members have been exposed in the field, those exposures were detected and the staff members were immediately isolated and treated. Two international staff members have been medically evacuated. They have fully recovered.
They are NOT saying he is the only MSF staff member to come down with Ebola (I think that is what you meant by your post?), but that he is the only one who came down with it after returning to his home country. Silje Lehne came down with it while she was in Sierra Leone and was then sent to Oslo for treatment.

Here is the link to the story about Silje Lehne: Norwegian Aid Worker Recovers From Ebola | MSF USA
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:59 PM   #129
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We were not talking about random travelers. The comparison was to medical professionals.
No, the USG has two official quarantine standards:
1) Arrivals from Ebola areas who were serving there in the DoD: 21 days of quarantine mandatory.
2) Arrivals from Ebola areas who are not DoD (random travelers, medical professionals, people who scraped up dead bodies from the streets while in shorts and flip-flops, etc): No quarantine necessary. Welcome to our Ebola-free land!
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:37 PM   #130
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A lot is being made of the fact that almost all cases in US have survived. Anyone ever been to Boston City Hospital, or Harbor View in Seattle or LA County Hospital in LA on any night of the week? Imagine a vomiting or crapping Ebola patient thrown in with the usual GI bleeders and DTing drunks and suicide attempts and overdoses, gunshot wounds and auto crashes.

We may have done well with 8-10 cases, but try 200. Already medical staff is starting to rebel, no one knows what the long term effects of an Ebola infection might be even after a recovery. Kaci and her type signed up for hazardous duty, but the typical ER nurse or doctor expects to be busy and harassed but not put in mortal danger. Usually the parking lot after a night shift is more hazardous than the job itself.

And lets not even think about cost. Some of you have had or have had relatives with MIs. See the bill? Ebola cases will be a lot more.

I reject that it is proven that the only way to stop Ebola is to go over there and treat it.

Ha
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Old 11-01-2014, 11:25 PM   #131
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If you are a history buff there is a good chance you've listened to a Dan Carlin pod cast. I just listened to one of his non history pod cast, Common Sense 283 - Summoning the Demon, the title has more to do with the second half content on AI.

He contends that the regular run of the mill nurse is the main ingredient needed to stop Ebola, and how we might implement said policy.
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Old 11-01-2014, 11:34 PM   #132
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I reject that it is proven that the only way to stop Ebola is to go over there and treat it.
To date, "going over there to treat it" seems like the most effective way . . . to bring it to the US. Folks going there to do that are surely going from pure motives and they are probably highly appreciated in Ebola-affected areas, but they are responsible for half of the cases we've had in the US at this point.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:14 AM   #133
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Here is an interesting article on response efforts in neighboring west African countries. This is a case from Mali

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/he...T.nav=top-news
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