Kidney stone

[Sarah in SC]

Hey, has anyone ever tried any of the so-called home remedies for kidney stones? I'm very tempted to experiment on DH, who has a 5 mm stone that he's trying to pass, with accompanying pain.

The one I read about it olive oil and lemon juice, and of course I'm a skeptic, but if I have the chance to torture him and make him forget about the kidney stone pain, well I'm all for that!

The doc wants to wait for a while before doing laser or tripsy on him, as it has traveled past two of the three narrow spots already. Any opinions or advice?

I knew I should have traded him in on a younger model after I saw how much his teeth cost to get fixed!

[Moemg]

I think you'd have more luck with some Jack Daniels and a bullet to bite when the pain gets bad .

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC

I knew I should have traded him in on a younger model after I saw how much his teeth cost to get fixed!

Younger men are too "needy" is SO many ways.........

[Poundkey]

I've passed 2 stones. Both larger than 5mm, but smooth and roundish. Not really painful.....more of an uncomfortable pressure. Don't know if it really helped, but in both cases the stones passed within a few hours after soaking in a hot bathtub. Could have been just a coincidence.
I had the 2nd one analyzed and it turns out they were from drinking too much iced tea. My doc had a specific name for the type of stone, but I don't recall it.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Ouch, Sarah. 5mm is marginal to pass.

Get some crystal lite lemon flavor which contains a lot of citrate, have him drink 32oz or more. It's a long shot, but can't hurt with all the fluid.

Been there, don't want to go there again. Good luck.

[ladelfina]

RIch, would this be potassium citrate? They prescribed a potassium citrate drink for DH, who has been undergoing a series of lithotripsies to combat a 2-3 cm stone that had formed in the shape of the kidney convolutions (I know there is a particular name for this type but it doesn't come to mind now).

He HATES the drink and gave it up within a week or so. They are powder packets called "CalcoMEV". He seems to have understood that it was a kind of alimentary 'integrator' rather than something that would act on the stone (now fragments) itself and/or his ability to pass the fragments. Glad I read this thread and starting tomorrow I will make him take it once again!!

In the course of the lithotripsies he has passed at minimum 3 fragments of 2-3mm, but they are ragged in shape. Ouch!

We got some DIY injections of Busco-something (Buscofen?) in case the pain gets bad. (The Italians tend to prefer injections to pills for certain things, and syringes are avail. in every drugstore and supermarket.) I'm nervous about having to give him the shot, though, if it comes to that. He says "no problem, I'll tell you how to do it.. I've done it hundreds of times for my mom/sis, etc."

Italian history points to drinking certain thermal waters as a cure, in particular those of Fiuggi. Leonardo da Vinci recorded good results from drinking these waters. It's unclear whether the benefit is supposed to be in its lower calcium content (most tap water is very hard here) or, as the town promo site claims, in some undefined 'macromolecule' that 'attaches itself' to the stone and dissolves it. What I have heard are two conflicting things: if one forms calcium-based stones, the dietary calcium intake is either relevant OR irrelevant since the kidney will just extract the calcium from your bones/body if it is not free anyway.

[Rambler]

I knew a guy a long time ago who's doc told him to drink lots of beer...he did, was real happy, and passed it in a few days...anyone else ever hear of that?

R

[Notmuchlonger]

Originally Posted by Rambler

I knew a guy a long time ago who's doc told him to drink lots of beer...he did, was real happy, and passed it in a few days...anyone else ever hear of that?

R

Make sense. Beer has alot of water. Plus it gets you buzzed which will dull the pain.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

RIch, would this be potassium citrate? They prescribed a potassium citrate drink for DH, who has been undergoing a series of lithotripsies to combat a 2-3 cm stone that had formed in the shape of the kidney convolutions (I know there is a particular name for this type but it doesn't come to mind now).

Sorry to hear of his troubles. Potassium citrate comes in a pill form, at least here. It is intended to inhibit crystal formation, but crystals beget crystals, like the old rock candy we used to have as kids. I nothing else, it might inhibit the fragments from re-crystaliizing. Check with his doctor on that one.

Bear in mind that there are numerous types of kidney stones ranging from various calcium crystals, to uric acid and others. The treatment depends on the type. Your DH probably has early staghorn calculi, hence the lithotripsy.

Having had a lithotripsy, I feel his pain. Hope it all ends well.

[ladelfina]

Thanks. We call it "the bombardment". He goes off and when he comes back I ask 'how do you feel?' and he says: "bombarded." He is on a schedule of going every 3 weeks; this since last December.

We collected a fragment for analysis and they said it was largely calcium.. something like 70+% (it's hard to get precise answers.. I'm not present and, if I were, I would be more pushy for details.. DH offers himself up like a lamb to the slaughter.)

Along with injections, packet medicine delivery is also popular here.. Ibuprofen (a brand called "Moment") is often in a packet that you dissolve in water and drink.. (ick). On TV they even advertise a "convenient" cough medicine that, instead of being a syrup, is something you dissolve in warm water and drink. I'm unclear on the "convenience" factor there.

As far as the Buscopan or related is concerned.. it is also fantastic for menstrual cramps, at least in the form of suppositories (another form more commercially acceptable than in the US). Hey, they get right to the point! The substance is "N-butilbromuro di joscina" and the company is Boehringer Ingleheim. Once or twice a year I get the kind of cramps that have you weeping and writhing on the floor.. tearing off clothes and running to the fridge to cover yourself mindlessly with ice cubes, or flattening out on the cold tile floor stomach down and sobbing. The sobbing makes it feel less terrible. Anyway, too much information, probably, but the Buscopan works a treat. Completely different action than the standard ibuprofen/Midol-type remedies -I can feel the difference-, and here it's OTC. Never had heard of it in the US. It's apparently more of an abdominal anti-spasmodic than an overall systemic analgesic.

[Sarah in SC]

Ladelfina, what do they call the tylenol-type painkiller over there, that is a prescription? I remember giving it to my mom after her hospitalization in Florence...still fresh, that nightmare!

Thanks all for your suggestions--I like the beer one, especially. Here's what he's had tonight: 3 beers, half of the crystal lite Rx from Rich, and the folk remedy (I couldn't resist), plus some mexican food. I think he'll sleep pretty well...

We'll keep hoping for the best, and for your DH, too, Ladelfina! DH is like that, lamb to the slaughter with the doctors, whereas me, the true nurse's daughter, grills them like lobsters when I go with him!

[martyb]

Had and passed stones twice, about a year between, I think. Hurt like hell, I can't imagine them being described as simply "pressure"! All I can say is, THANK GOD FOR MORPHINE lol!!! Luckily for me, the hospital I use is about 5 minutes away, and both times I showed up at the emergency room around 2 a.m., I don't believe more than 15 minutes passed before the good 'ol morphine was flowing through my veins and I was feeling no pain, and talking smack to the nurses. Conversely, a friend in NC has had stones several times, bigger and uglier than mine (has had to have them surgically removed and also some other removal procedures) and the folks at his hospital do everything they can to keep from giving him morphine for the pain. I'm pretty sure that his are more painful than mine have been, from his descriptions, and they sound like they must be similar to a cockleburr! But...for some reason they refuse the morphine until he basically is hysterical with pain, and even then I think they make him wait. Folks on my end don't treat me like that, they alleviate my pain immediately. Knock on wood, it's been a couple of years since my last stone, and I truly hope that trend continues.

[ladelfina]

I don't know all the names, Sarah.. I import generics when I visit the US. I think Tylenol (acteominophen) is called paracetemol elsewhere in the world. One Italian brand is Tachipirina. I remember that story of your mom's fall! I hope she is doing ok now! Sorry this brings up bad memories. I hope your guy feels better soon.

marty, yeh DH had pains on and off and the doc looked at the Xrays and said "this shouldn't be causing you any pain.. it's impossible that you would have pain from this." like DH was 'getting it wrong'! Good thing you are so close to a 'liberal' hospital. In Italy the pain aspect seems to be downplayed as in your NC story, just from what I have generally heard. Some Italians are very superstitious about meds, regarding a single aspirin as a last, rather than a first, resort. If I offer someone with a headache an aspirin, they look at me as though I am pushing crack sometimes.

[Sarah in SC]

Ah, yes, it was called paracetemol on the package. I convinced her it was some really strong painkiller in hopes that the placebo effect would kick in! She's doing fine now, had a kidney transplant rejection scare a couple of weeks ago (10 years after the transplant), but fortunately some massive doses of steroids put her creatine levels back to normal.

Ladelfina, I hope both our DHs come through this stuff soon--I gave mine a big container of Rich's Crystal lite to take to work and hoping for the best!