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View Poll Results: Tell us about your LDL measurements and statin use
Thought there was only one LDL measurement, using statin. 24 20.87%
Thought there was only one LDL measurement, not using statin. 25 21.74%
Heard about LDL particle size, never had an LDL-P test, using statin. 14 12.17%
Heard about LDL particle size, never had an LDL-P test, not using statin. 30 26.09%
Had an LDL-P test, using statin. 9 7.83%
Had an LDL-P test, not using statin. 13 11.30%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-17-2013, 10:20 AM   #41
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I assume it is not ideal from a nutrition standpoint because of low vegetables but nothing I can do makes them palatable in large amounts.

A the risk of being black-balled by the ulta-low-fat crowd ..... Have you tried a small amount of butter with your veggies? Maybe 1 tsp per serving? Or dress them in a bit of olive oil and a dash of lemon, salt and pepper. I like the anti-cancer

You diet seems similar to mine though I do eat a lot more veggies and probably somewhat less meat. Mainly, its lower carbs in general, much less sugar in particular, diversity in food types, moderation in food types, and Just Eat Real Food.

It seems to be working well for you. One can't argue with success.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:47 AM   #42
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Pretty much everything in a box and/or jar that shows high carbs on the labels. That includes all cereal except for a brand called Hi-Lo that I order on line and love.
I checked out the Hi-Lo and it certainly looks better than most modern cereals. Like most modern cereals it is a bit of a Frankenfood and does not fit into my just eat real food mentality. But.... if it satisfies the urges and keeps one from pigging out on Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs, that's a good thing. Like my old grand pappy always said, "Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good."
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:23 PM   #43
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A the risk of being black-balled by the ulta-low-fat crowd ..... Have you tried a small amount of butter with your veggies? Maybe 1 tsp per serving? Or dress them in a bit of olive oil and a dash of lemon, salt and pepper. I like the anti-cancer
I cook lots of them for DW, the kids, and the grand kids and use lots of butter, garlic, oil, lemon, thyme, etc. I can even get to where I take a bite and think, "not bad." But a couple of bites later and I am done. Raw carrots and cabbage are OK. But most anything cooked, forget it unless it is in the form of a pureed soup. Wait -- spinach mixed in with sausage for a stuffing is OK, as is spanakopita.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:04 PM   #44
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I eat all the salad, veggies (I hate them so don't eat much), meat, fish, fat, cheese, eggs, bacon and nuts that I want without counting calories at all. I eat some fruit (e.g. apple a day) but not tons.

This works well for me (in terms of weight) possibly because it fits my predilections so is easy. I assume it is not ideal from a nutrition standpoint because of low vegetables but nothing I can do makes them palatable in large amounts.
I think this sort of distaste for vegetables may be based on individual differences in taste chemistry.

I have never eaten a vegetable that I didn't like, as long as it was not overcooked or otherwise messed up in preparation. Most of the time until the last 20 years or so when men began to be more experimental about vegetables I tended to like veggies much more than the average American man.

I remember eating other guys' parsley or asparagus or endive at training table or in the dorm.

Ha
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:58 PM   #45
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I think this sort of distaste for vegetables may be based on individual differences in taste chemistry.
No doubt in my mind that you're right. The only vegetables I've ever disliked were brussels sprouts, wax beans, and lima beans.

Within the last 5-10 years, I've actually developed a liking for brussels sprouts, but the others are still non-starters.

There is probably an environmental aspect to my peculiarity. When I was a kid, we had very little money and my mother was probably the world's worst cook. I ate so many boiled potatoes, wax beans and lima beans (the only way my mom knew to cook anything was to boil it to death), that even the thought of those items sends a chill up my spine.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:49 PM   #46
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No doubt in my mind that you're right. The only vegetables I've ever disliked were brussels sprouts, wax beans, and lima beans.

Within the last 5-10 years, I've actually developed a liking for brussels sprouts, but the others are still non-starters.

There is probably an environmental aspect to my peculiarity. When I was a kid, we had very little money and my mother was probably the world's worst cook. I ate so many boiled potatoes, wax beans and lima beans (the only way my mom knew to cook anything was to boil it to death), that even the thought of those items sends a chill up my spine.
Over boiling tends to bring out the sulfurous taste and smell of things like Brussels sprouts and cabbage. And most people hate that taste and smell.

Ha
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #47
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The secret to Brussels sprouts: steam/blanch just long enough to soften, then sauté with bacon...
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #48
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The secret to Brussels sprouts: steam/blanch just long enough to soften, then sauté with bacon...
That's how my mother used to make them... mmm! Now I'm craving Brussels sprouts.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:03 PM   #49
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Biggest medical con ever perpetrated by the drug companies. No statins for me, thank you very much.



Kind of a corny movie, but lots of good medical stuff int he middle 1/3rd.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:25 PM   #50
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There is so much misinformation out there regarding cholesterol, LDL, statins, etc. it's unbelievable. In my experience, a lot of doctors are just as misinformed as the general public, so you really need to do your own research to understand it all. Personally, I would not take a statin drug under any circumstances. Moderatly high blood cholesterol is not only NOT bad for your heart, it's good for you (over half the people that die of heart attacks have normal cholesterol, which should tell you something).

Here are a couple articles that help set the record straight on a lot of these things:

The most important thing you probably don’t know about cholesterol

Why you should eat more (not less) cholesterol
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:52 PM   #51
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Please post your results here and let us know what your diet and numbers were prior to the test and this time. It is just one data point but interesting nonetheless. I could never go vegetarian, let alone vegan, but I am curious if individuals who actually run blood tests see significant (in lay terms) results.
Well, I was on the vegan diet for 10 weeks and had my blood tested yesterday.

First, my blood results from 08/08/12:

Total Cholesterol 278
HDL Cholesterol 82
LDL Cholesterol 174
Triglycerides 108
Glucose 97

My diet in 2012 consisted of vegetables, fruit, salmon, grains and dairy. Some of the food was processed. I was using soy milk for coffee, but I ate cheese in moderation. I have not eaten red meat or poultry since 1976. I was getting 1 - 2 hours of exercise a day. My height was 5'3" and weight ~115 pounds.

I started the vegan diet on 2/24/13. The blood results from 04/30/13 are:

Total Cholesterol 238
HDL Cholesterol 77
LDL Cholesterol 142
Triglycerides 96
Glucose 103

My diet has been mostly whole foods consisting of vegetables, fruit, grains, a vegetable protein powder and six oz of red wine per day. I fractured my ankle on January 2nd and couldn't start exercising again until the first part of March. Since then I went back to my 1 - 2 hours of exercise per day. My height is still 5'3" and weight ~115 pounds.

I am really shocked that my LDL dropped so dramatically. Almost everything in my life was the same except for cutting out seafood (mostly wild caught salmon) and adding 6 oz of red wine per day.

I was planning on adding salmon back into my diet because I didn't anticipate a substantial change in my LDL, but now I plan on continuing with the vegan diet and having the blood test again maybe at the six month point.

I am not so concerned about having high LDL, but I am fascinated that I could alter the LDL count by ~18%.

I am a bit bummed that my glucose reading increased to 103. I will be keeping an eye on that.

-helen
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:15 PM   #52
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The secret to Brussels sprouts: steam/blanch just long enough to soften, then sauté with bacon...
I love Brussels sprouts. They have flavor, unlike the bland squash family. They are really good roasted, better than boiled. here is a good recipe for that
Roasted Brussels Sprouts Recipe : Ina Garten : Recipes : Food Network
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:25 AM   #53
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Here is an interesting article in the NY Times about the proposed new healthy heart guidelines. In particular the article focuses on cholesterol and the use of drugs to lower it. The authors, both MD's, have some doubts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/op...tins.html?_r=0
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:53 AM   #54
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Interesting article Chuckanut, thanks. Here are some points that I liked:
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Statins are effective for people with known heart disease. But for people who have less than a 20 percent risk of getting heart disease in the next 10 years, statins not only fail to reduce the risk of death, but also fail even to reduce the risk of serious illness
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...side effects, including muscle pain or weakness, decreased cognitive function, increased risk of diabetes (especially for women), cataracts or sexual dysfunction. Perhaps more dangerous, statins provide false reassurances that may discourage patients from taking the steps that actually reduce cardiovascular disease. According to the World Health Organization, 80 percent of cardiovascular disease is caused by smoking, lack of exercise, an unhealthy diet, and other lifestyle factors. Statins give the illusion of protection to many people, who would be much better served, for example, by simply walking an extra 10 minutes per day.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #55
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That NYT editorial certainly is food for thought.

FWIW- The new AHA/ACC cholesterol management guidelines can be downloaded here (enjoy all 85 fun-filled pages, inc references).
2013 ACC/AHA Guideline on the Treatment of Blood Cholesterol to Reduce Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Risk in Adults

Only skimmed it, but I'm troubled by so many of the Guideline authors (~half) having significant funding ties to the drug industry (above link, p52-56). Claims that pharma-supported authors did not "vote" on final Guidlelines ignores fact that they still significantly influenced the deliberations (i.e. tainted jury effect). IMHO- The appearance of conflict of interest is obvious & potentially damaging to public health. Some folks who most all docs agree should be taking statins might now blow it off thinking these new Guidelines are just Big Pharma drumming up new business.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:27 PM   #56
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So, lemme get this straight... earlier, there was an LDL level you had to be above before prescribing an LDL lowering drug was OK. Now, with ANY level of LDL, it will be OK to prescribe LDL lowering drugs. I'm sure the drug makers have absolutely nothing to do with THAT recommendation!
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:14 PM   #57
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So, lemme get this straight... earlier, there was an LDL level you had to be above before prescribing an LDL lowering drug was OK. Now, with ANY level of LDL, it will be OK to prescribe LDL lowering drugs. I'm sure the drug makers have absolutely nothing to do with THAT recommendation!
Also, keep an eye on that 7.5% or more risk of a heat attack in the next 10 years. Depending upon how that compares to the existing norms, that could increase or decrease the number of people taking a drug.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:19 PM   #58
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Also, keep an eye on that 7.5% or more risk of a heat attack in the next 10 years.
With the ongoing global warming, I think a heat attack is definitely in the cards for most of us.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:21 PM   #59
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Also, keep an eye on that 7.5% or more risk of a heat attack in the next 10 years. Depending upon how that compares to the existing norms, that could increase or decrease the number of people taking a drug.
Most everything I've read suggests these new guidelines with greatly INcrease the number of folks taking statins. According to Hopkins Director of Preventive Cardiology (Dr Roger Blumenthal), under these new guidelines statin treatment is recommended for 50-60% of men over 50, 30-50% of women over 60, and ALL men over 70!!

New treatment guidelines could double number of Americans taking statins - Metro - The Boston Globe
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:50 PM   #60
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It certainly is more profitable to treat a risk factor rather than an actual disease.

I would be far more comfortable with the recommendation if none of the people involved had a financial interest in the recommendation (The fact that they didn't vote is just putting lipstick on a pig.) And, I would also feel better if big pharma was not aggressively advertising their drugs on TV. My instincts tell me something is not right about this. And I have learned to trust my instincts.
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