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Old 04-03-2011, 11:33 AM   #81
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Regarding your comments on safety, to be totally fair, I believe there have been FDA approved drugs over the years that were extensively tested but later pulled due to problems. So just because something has been clincially trialed/approved doesn't mean it won't turn out to be a safety problem/risk (ugh, look at all the disclaimers). Therefore, you could draw that conclusion for almost anything (drug, supplement, food, air, etc), so should that prevent one from using a supplement?
Maybe Rich can comment more fully, but I'd agree that FDA testing is not a complete assurance. The sample sizes are too small to catch everything, but there is (as I understand) this follow up monitoring to catch problems like VIOXX.

But your logic doesn't follow that NO testing is as good as SOME testing. Or that old phrase, "Perfect is the enemy of good".

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Does anyone else remember VIOXX? I was in NY visiting friends when it was withdrawn. One of them was on it and really POd...
He would have been happier if it wasn't pulled?

-ERD50
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #82
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I have much less faith in doctors and medical science than I used to, and there's no convenient replacement. That is, even if I had time for exhaustive research on a topic, it's difficult for me to evaluate all the different studies (and I started my career as a scientist in a biological field).
I started my career in physics and now I'm working in molecular biology and it frightens me the ad hoc way a lot of medicine is practiced. I'm impressed by the researchers that I work with, but some of the doctors are pretty dumb. It's sort of funny to see their egos deflate when they get out of their comfort zone of bossing patients around.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #83
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The real drug problem isn't illegal drugs it's the over prescription of legal lifestyle drugs. There are situations where statins are warranted, but changes in diet and excersise would be more beneficial in most cases. If drug companies were purely philanthropic organizations I might be more prone to believing the hype and advertising, but as they are in it for money I take the studies and marketing with a big pinch of salt
Nun, I totally agree with you, but the biggest problem is most people are unwilling to adopt good nutrition and exercise.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:42 AM   #84
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If Oz and Weil recommend it, that's more than enough reason for me to be extremely skeptical of it.
I worry about the "new-agey" aspect of both of these guys. Granted, conventional wisdom often isn't, but I'd prefer to keep my BS detector on max sensitivity.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:45 AM   #85
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Nun, I totally agree with you, but the biggest problem is most people are unwilling to adopt good nutrition and exercise.
Well, they have been given useless or flat out counterproductive and contradictory advice for so long a lot of people more or less think that all the doctor knows is whatever he's been told, and that is likely to be wrong or self-serving.

If medicine hadn't so often gone down the wrong road at full speed, loudly telling everyone what they had to do if they didn't want to die soon, medicine would have more credibility today.

Ha
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:48 AM   #86
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Maybe Rich can comment more fully, but I'd agree that FDA testing is not a complete assurance. The sample sizes are too small to catch everything, but there is (as I understand) this follow up monitoring to catch problems like VIOXX.

But your logic doesn't follow that NO testing is as good as SOME testing. Or that old phrase, "Perfect is the enemy of good".



-ERD50
ERD50,

I am not trying to get into an arguement with you over my logic, however, several of those links showed that some testing was done, however, as Rich pointed out, there has been no conclusive/definitive evidence to prove or dis-prove CoQ10. That said, there have been several small trials done that seem to confirm its benefits along with many experts drawing a conclusion that it is helpful.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:05 PM   #87
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There are situations where statins are warranted, but changes in diet and excersise would be more beneficial in most cases.
Yes, and the article Martha referenced says this:
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No one doubts that it would be best if every patient had a healthy diet and weight and exercised regularly. Some argue that statins should be reserved for those who fail these lifestyle interventions, or who have genetically high cholesterol refractory to diet and exercise. The reality is that it is very difficult to get individual patients to change their behavior. Science-Based Medicine » Statins – The Cochrane Review
It doesn't seem fair to criticize drug companies and doctors for not depending on diet/exercise when they know that their patients are by and large not going to do it. As patients, though, we have a different slant on this, since we know whether we're doing good diet and exercise.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:32 PM   #88
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For Dr. Oz, the following quote is appropriate:

The most important thing in this job is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've go it made.
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Old 04-05-2011, 04:25 PM   #89
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Re Vioxx:
He would have been happier if it wasn't pulled?

-ERD50
He would have been exctatic if the FDA had not approved it and then found out that it increased the risk of death from the very disease that was the reason he was taking it! Silly man trusted the FDA!

Fortunately he lived to talk about it, but many did not!
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:23 PM   #90
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Well, they have been given useless or flat out counterproductive and contradictory advice for so long a lot of people more or less think that all the doctor knows is whatever he's been told, and that is likely to be wrong or self-serving.

If medicine hadn't so often gone down the wrong road at full speed, loudly telling everyone what they had to do if they didn't want to die soon, medicine would have more credibility today.

Ha
Well, applause for that statement.
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