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Old 10-05-2010, 01:37 PM   #41
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sorry to be a bit of a dunce, but who is "NML"?
thanks-
Northwestern Mutual Life, I think.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #42
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Florida did exactly that with Citizens Insurance (state-run insurer of last resort), as I understand it. From what I have read, they had trouble closing the state budget gap, so they raided the kitty at Citizens with the promise to just issue some debt if a big hurricane hit. Do you feel lucky?
IIRC Berkshire Hathaway profited handsomely from Florida's desperation...
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #43
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Northwestern Mutual Life, I think.
Yes, they changed their name to the "warm and fuzzy" NMFN (Northwestern Mutual Financial Network), but most folks still call them NML..........
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:15 PM   #44
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IIRC Berkshire Hathaway profited handsomely from Florida's desperation...
As did the rest of the reinsurance industry. But it sure sucks to be a primary insurer or policyholder down there.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:19 PM   #45
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This was noted and linked in a new thread today, but seems appropriate to mention here: 'Premium hikes loom for long-term care insurance'
One of the nation's largest providers of long-term care insurance is planning to raise premiums an average of 40% next year a move that revives the longstanding question of whether the pitfalls of buying a long-term care policy outweigh the payoffs....

At the root of rate increases past and future is a pattern of seller's remorse in the LTC business. Collectively, LTC insurers have had a long history of selling coverage to thousands of people at particular prices, only to discover later that they underestimated the money they'd ultimately have to pay out in claims.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:23 AM   #46
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Forget lti

As an American living in Greece & traveling worldwide I agree with all the comments on policy restrictions & scams. The ONLY way I see anyone surviving a decent living condition if you are in this situation is to move to one of the cheaper countries in Asia. Thailand being one of them. Health coverage & hospital put the USA to shame in all respects. You can get a nice inexpensive furnished apt from 200 to 500 US dollars a month plus a woman to watch after you in your troubled times for another 100 or so. Granted this will vary depending on who or what you find but they are all dedicated. This can also be said of Mexico although I have no first hand experience on that yet.
I am totally disillusioned with he USA & feel they have failed in there efforts to make a better place for all of us. Although it is better than most the corruption is rampant & unfortunately you will be the one to pay.
Think about my proposal for you later years especially if you are alone or have no more family ties. If not it would be a great place for you grandkids to visit.
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:38 AM   #47
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As an American living in Greece & traveling worldwide I agree with all the comments on policy restrictions & scams. The ONLY way I see anyone surviving a decent living condition if you are in this situation is to move to one of the cheaper countries in Asia. Thailand being one of them. Health coverage & hospital put the USA to shame in all respects. You can get a nice inexpensive furnished apt from 200 to 500 US dollars a month plus a woman to watch after you in your troubled times for another 100 or so. Granted this will vary depending on who or what you find but they are all dedicated. This can also be said of Mexico although I have no first hand experience on that yet.
I am totally disillusioned with he USA & feel they have failed in there efforts to make a better place for all of us. Although it is better than most the corruption is rampant & unfortunately you will be the one to pay.
Think about my proposal for you later years especially if you are alone or have no more family ties. If not it would be a great place for you grandkids to visit.
I think it would be pretty far fetched to think even 1% of people would consider moving away from everything they've ever known to live by themselves with family a world away just to save a few bucks. Mom and dad would probably love the idea of spending $6000 a trip on plane tickets to visit grandma or grandpa a few times a year. Could have just bought the LTC for that kind of money.
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Ahh forgot the home bodies
Old 10-12-2010, 08:59 AM   #48
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Ahh forgot the home bodies

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I think it would be pretty far fetched to think even 1% of people would consider moving away from everything they've ever known to live by themselves with family a world away just to save a few bucks. Mom and dad would probably love the idea of spending $6000 a trip on plane tickets to visit grandma or grandpa a few times a year. Could have just bought the LTC for that kind of money.
I agree but if one gets to the point of everything getting too expensive, SS goes bust, your all alone & getiing sick & there are mnore immigrants at home than Americans it would be an option rather than end up on the streets as a box man. I have never regretted leaving the states & have learned a lot since I left & traveled. I love America but people have got to get organized & kick butt if they want to be free & happy. Life if short & then you die.
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:17 AM   #49
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At the root of rate increases past and future is a pattern of seller's remorse in the LTC business. Collectively, LTC insurers have had a long history of selling coverage to thousands of people at particular prices, only to discover later that they underestimated the money they'd ultimately have to pay out in claims.
Geez, sounds a LOT like programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and SS..........
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:36 AM   #50
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Geez, sounds a LOT like programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and SS..........
Except--no one is forcing us to buy LTCI (yet). I can put up with all kinds of foolishness if I'm not required to fund it.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:33 PM   #51
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Except--no one is forcing us to buy LTCI (yet). I can put up with all kinds of foolishness if I'm not required t fund it.
Yet is the key word. Who wants to bet LTC is tied in with single payer healthcare within 15 years...
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:38 PM   #52
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Yet is the key word. Who wants to bet LTC is tied in with single payer healthcare within 15 years...
Maybe its in that 2700 page bill that we "needed to pass so we know what's in it"..............
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:59 PM   #53
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Ron Lieber of the New York Times writes about Long Term Care. I can't see any good options, and for now, plan to do nothing about it. I am 50 and DW 47 - we'd be paying premiums for years if we start now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/05/bu...l5/05CARE.html
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:13 PM   #54
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I bought into LTC insurance a while back. I'm seriously considering cancelling it.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:25 PM   #55
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I bought into LTC insurance a while back. I'm seriously considering cancelling it.
From what you've said about your future expectations, maybe you should spend some time with people like my father's "mild cognitive impairment" shading toward dementia.

One issue is that LTC premiums may be a waste of money yet still keep going up with no end in sight. The other side of that issue is that many philanthropies and beneficiaries would rather not see us suffering on Medicaid as a result of having canceled our LTC policies and exhausting our savings.

Spouse and I don't have LTC insurance either. We're sure hoping that we're self-insured.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:48 AM   #56
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One issue is that LTC premiums may be a waste of money yet still keep going up with no end in sight. The other side of that issue is that many philanthropies and beneficiaries would rather not see us suffering on Medicaid as a result of having canceled our LTC policies and exhausting our savings.
My FIL was on Medicaid the last 20 years of his life, trust me, it was ugly..............

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Spouse and I don't have LTC insurance either. We're sure hoping that we're self-insured.
As long as you can afford about $70,000 a year for in-home care when you need it, and also keep your SWR under 4%, you should be set.........
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:10 AM   #57
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The other side of that issue is that many philanthropies and beneficiaries would rather not see us suffering on Medicaid as a result of having canceled our LTC policies and exhausting our savings.
I'd add "state governments" to the list. States have a full-court press on to get people to buy LTCI, since it lowers their Medicaid costs That's why some allow LTCI premiums to be deducted from income for state tax purposes, and why many have signed on to the "partnership" that allows LTCI policyholders who are receiving care to qualify for Medicaid when their LTCI benefits run out even though they still have large amounts of their personal funds remaining. All of this is to encourage folks to sign up for LTCI, which helps reduce state expenses.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:51 PM   #58
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I bought into LTC insurance a while back. I'm seriously considering cancelling it.
Khan , I would keep the LTC . You live alone and are estranged from your family so this is an insurance you likely will need . I have spent years in health care and there is a big difference between older couples and older single people who do not have family or close friends to support them . The older couples seem to be able to boost each other up and keep the partner out of a nursing home where as an alone person is a target for unscrupulous health care workers coming into their home . A close family friend had Alzheimer's and wanted to stay in her house . Health care was arranged but the person in charge was older and lived a few hours away . The house was literally stripped of antiques and valuable silver and the care was awful . We finally stepped in and placed her in a Nursing Home nearby . Where she lived with excellent care for years .
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:37 PM   #59
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As long as you can afford about $70,000 a year for in-home care when you need it, and also keep your SWR under 4%, you should be set.........
We are also going the self insure path. We have a VG Target Retirement fund into which we pay $500/month and is included in our annual expenses budget. (This fund is outside our retirement invstments and not counted in our SWR calculations).

We are both age 55 and the fund has over $21k in it now. If / when we need nursing home care we are hoping that the fund will be by then large enough to supplement our income to afford whatever nursing care we need. Life is a gamble, but we have retired with a planned initial SWR of 2.5%.
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:55 AM   #60
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... A close family friend had Alzheimer's and wanted to stay in her house . Health care was arranged but the person in charge was older and lived a few hours away . The house was literally stripped of antiques and valuable silver and the care was awful . We finally stepped in and placed her in a Nursing Home nearby . Where she lived with excellent care for years .

IMO - If there is anyway to keep someone in the home... it is the lowest cost method and best option. But it requires the right help. The problem is that even if the right help is found (does the job, dependable and honest)... someone one independently needs to manage it. A family member is the best choice.

However, with some illness (like Alzheimer's Disease) people eventually require a huge amount of hands on care and attention and can become too much for one person... and eventually close medical professional oversight. There are many other situations where the individual requires a lot of hands on help (stroke, physical degradation, neurological conditions, etc).

When it gets to that stage, someone can still be kept in the home (by hiring professionals). But the oversight and management becomes critical... and it is expensive because of the need for round the clock help. But I still think it is less expensive than a nursing home.

For situations that are terminal... even ones that are longer term (several years)... Hospice will often help.

But most do wind up being placed in a nursing home.

IMO - The more help one needs, the more likely one is going to be neglected (to some degree or not get the attention needed/wanted). Why? Because that person takes much more effort.
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