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Old 02-13-2016, 08:09 AM   #21
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Looking at the average length of stay chart below, 2-3 years coverage should be adequate for almost everyone.
looking at this plot one would think you could get unlimited coverage with a 2 year elimination period rater cheap. Unfortunately I have not seen it. That would be "buying insurance" instead of prepaying LTC expenses.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by iac1003 View Post
The problem is that very few LTC policies being currently written insure a person for more than 2-3 years. So you can pay high premiums and still end up paying a lot to LTC facility if you live a long time.

There are 2 competing philosophies amongst insurance agents and financial planners about LTC insurance. One is called "short and fat". The other is called "long and thin".

The "short and fat" theory says that the best LTC policy is one that covers the full cost of care for 2 years.

The "long and thin" theory believes that the best LTC policy is one that covers most, not all, of the cost of care for a long period of time (10 years or so).

From what I understand, most insurance agents are taught that the "short and fat" theory is the best. I disagree. That's why DW and I bought policies with 10 years of benefits. For about the same premium as a "short and fat" policy we were able to get a "long and thin".

Personally, I'm not concerned about one of us needing care for 2 years. That would not be a major blow to our financial security. In my own family I've seen people need care for 6 years and even longer, most of that being care received at home.

It's true that the policies we own won't cover the full cost of care. But they'll pay about $90,000 per year for 10 years, so that should cover most of the cost. What it doesn't cover, we're comfortable paying the difference out of our retirement savings.

So, to make my point, it's not that companies only sell policies that have 2 or 3 years of benefits. I believe it's just that insurance agents are taught to only quote the policies with 2 or 3 years of benefits. They're trained to show "short and fat". If you google it I'm sure you can find companies that sell policies with 10 years or more of benefits, even lifetime/unlimited policies.
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Old 02-15-2016, 05:21 AM   #23
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Personally, I'm not concerned about one of us needing care for 2 years. That would not be a major blow to our financial security. In my own family I've seen people need care for 6 years and even longer, most of that being care received at home.
+1
A friend's mother needed 24/7 care for eight years until she died. My friend lived very close, and it amounted to him and his wife essentially putting their lives on hold for those eight years to handle it. His mom was 103 when she finally passed away, something nobody ever expected.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:16 AM   #24
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most nursing home stays are short. I'm looking at LTCI for us but there is a 90 day elimination period.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:27 AM   #25
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Have experience with two LTC policies of the 5 year kind. A thinner payout was not available when the policy was invoked.

Also consider how things might progress. In laws have gone from independent, to one in memory unit, and then the other into assisted. The yearly cost is now 4x's what it was, just 4 years ago. For another 1.5 to 3 years, much of the cost will be reimbursed by their policies, which are of the type uou cannot find anymore.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:32 PM   #26
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... which are of the type you cannot find anymore.
What do you mean by this?

What type is it that you "cannot find anymore"?
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:50 PM   #27
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Looking at the average length of stay chart below, 2-3 years coverage should be adequate for almost everyone.
I would caution that length of stay in a nursing home at end of life is only one time period to consider with an LTC policy. There could be many years in an assisted living facility prior to arriving at the nursing home stage, that would be eligible for LTC insurance reimbursement.

You need to consider the various stages an aging person goes through and the potential time period that each of those periods may cover.

My mother, suffering from early Alzheimers, is coming up on her first year in assisted living and based on her physical health would appear to have a number of years to go before getting to the 'nursing home' stage. She is fortunate to have an unlimited time period policy (not unlimited cost) which I am not even sure is offered anymore by her carrier.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:54 PM   #28
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What do you mean by this?

What type is it that you "cannot find anymore"?
There are references throughout this thread and others that mention LTC products which provide a lot of bang for the buck, but are no longer available.

For example, the policies I mentioned are paying a lifetime benefit of approximately $475K over a five year period. That is to each policy holder. I am not considering LTC, but have assumed something like this in no longer available, or the premiums are such that most can no longer afford it.

Maybe I am wrong?
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:13 PM   #29
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There are references throughout this thread and others that mention LTC products which provide a lot of bang for the buck, but are no longer available.

For example, the policies I mentioned are paying a lifetime benefit of approximately $475K over a five year period. That is to each policy holder. I am not considering LTC, but have assumed something like this in no longer available, or the premiums are such that most can no longer afford it.

Maybe I am wrong?


a married couple I know in their early sixties recently bought a million dollars of LTC insurance for about $2,000/year per spouse.

I googled "lifetime/unlimited" long term care insurance and found that there are policies like that for sale, too. I don't have a lifetime/unlimited one, but they are available.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:53 PM   #30
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a married couple I know in their early sixties recently bought a million dollars of LTC insurance for about $2,000/year per spouse.

I googled "lifetime/unlimited" long term care insurance and found that there are policies like that for sale, too. I don't have a lifetime/unlimited one, but they are available.
That sounds like their costs in early sixties, but I don't have records that go back that far.

In their mid 80's (2011), the yearly premium had grown to about $8500.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:18 PM   #31
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That sounds like their costs in early sixties, but I don't have records that go back that far.

In their mid 80's (2011), the yearly premium had grown to about $8500.


The policy they purchased is the kind that does not have premiums that go up every year. The company they bought their policy from has never had any premium increases on any of the LTC policies it has sold.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:32 PM   #32
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The policy they purchased is the kind that does not have premiums that go up every year. The company they bought their policy from has never had any premium increases on any of the LTC policies it has sold.
I see from your intro post that you identify yourself as "CLTC", indicating you are an insurance professional. Do you sell LTC insurance by any chance?
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:01 PM   #33
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a married couple I know in their early sixties recently bought a million dollars of LTC insurance for about $2,000/year per spouse.

I googled "lifetime/unlimited" long term care insurance and found that there are policies like that for sale, too. I don't have a lifetime/unlimited one, but they are available.
I made a special google incantation: "lifetime/unlimited" long term care insurance scott olson

Sooooo, when you say you bought long and thin policies for you and spouse, who did you buy that from? What company did the agent represent?
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:47 PM   #34
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I made a special google incantation: "lifetime/unlimited" long term care insurance scott olson

Sooooo, when you say you bought long and thin policies for you and spouse, who did you buy that from? What company did the agent represent?


I bought my "long and thin" policy from Allianz.
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