Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post
The west is getting increasingly fat and suffering all sorts of metabolic disorders including diabetes. This, in spite of the mantra that has been drilled into us regarding fat in our diets. As a society we have been heeding that advice. Our consumption of fat is down considerably since the seventies and yet our obesity rates are way up and type 2 diabetes is almost epidemic.

Why? Carbohydrates. When people shunned fat in their diet they replaced it with carbs and we were told that was the right thing to do. Now the studies that told us that dietary fat was bad and carbs are good turns out to have been wrong on both counts.

Look up Gary Taubs and take it from there. You will be surprised by just how far wrong we have gone.
Too bad the government stopped at preaching. They could have outlawed butter and bacon and porkchops, then we might be able to be even fatter.

The government has never got anything wrong.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-12-2013, 04:07 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Elect a North Korean style gummint. We'll all be starving and at less than 20 BMI. WIll also have a fat dear leader.

Just kidding.

Today on my way home from skating around 1 PM, for some odd reason I actully looked at drivers of cars, usually just look to at the cars and automatically avaluate threat ot no threat.

Most car's drivers were morbidly obese. Of those roughly two thirds were stuffing their faces.
__________________

__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 98
I think Colorado is bucking the trend for the following reasons:

We have good weather that is conducive to out door activity all year long. There are bad weather days but no long streaks that keep you indoors.

We have access to tons of trails and parks no matter where you live, in the city or out in the country.

We have access to the mountains and tons of national forest that you want to go explore and as a result end up getting exercise.

With the altitude baking is hard. Things don't turn out well and don't taste very good.

There is alot of peer pressure at all ages to be outdoorsy and athletic.

Donut shops generally don't do well here. Healthy eating is more popular. Goes back to the peer pressure thing.

We have a healthy grocery store here, Natural Grocers by Vitamin Cottage, that is very cheap. Is is cheaper to shop there than any main stream store and way cheaper than Whole Foods. They also monitor all the ingredients in every product they sell so you can buy anything in there and not get bad chemicals or sneaky bad ingredients. Makes it easy to eat healthy if you only go there and you will be saving money.

Edit: Forgot to add that it is generally very safe to be out and about exercising. We don't have alot of crime.
__________________
Sun456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 04:21 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls99 View Post
Elect a North Korean style gummint. We'll all be starving and at less than 20 BMI. WIll also have a fat dear leader.

Just kidding.

Today on my way home from skating around 1 PM, for some odd reason I actully looked at drivers of cars, usually just look to at the cars and automatically avaluate threat ot no threat.

Most car's drivers were morbidly obese. Of those roughly two thirds were stuffing their faces.
A lot depends on where you are. If I stay near home, I can go a few weeks without seeing anyone any heavier than maybe 10-15% overweight. I live across from a bus stop. A fat person waiting for the bus is uncommon, and the bus is not for the elite. If I get on some buses downtown, there may be some very fat people taking up a lot of seat space. I notice that if I want to sit down.

It may also be that when I am walking I just tend not to notice, like I notice but avoid possibly troublesome situations, then I don't remember them or the people involved. Our eyes are naturally drawn to those who most interest us.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 05:36 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ls99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
A lot depends on where you are. If I stay near home, I can go a few weeks without seeing anyone any heavier than maybe 10-15% overweight. I live across from a bus stop. A fat person waiting for the bus is uncommon, and the bus is not for the elite. If I get on some buses downtown, there may be some very fat people taking up a lot of seat space. I notice that if I want to sit down.

It may also be that when I am walking I just tend not to notice, like I notice but avoid possibly troublesome situations, then I don't remember them or the people involved. Our eyes are naturally drawn to those who most interest us.

Ha
My experience base is around Baltimore whre DW has family and we visit at times. Nowaday mostly the 50 mile radius of where I live. Don't know about Pittsburgh, the nearest big city. I avoid it like the plague.

As for my eyes drawn to people of interest, well there were none of poisitve nature on this prticular trip.

At the skating rink, where I am the second oldest regular, everyone is in splendid shape. There are several females that do draw my positive attention
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
ls99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khufu View Post
In my opinion the best approach would be for the govt to restrict levels of sugar and fat in processed foods, restrict or eliminate food and restaurant advertising, impose a national tax on the caloric content of restaurant meals , increase physical education in the school system and launch public awareness campaigns to stigmatize overeating in the way that smoking has been. The alternative is that by mid-century as many as a third of Americans could suffer from preventable diabetes, a treatment load that would be likely to swamp the health-care system.

Of course, such a comprehensive approach to the leading public health issue of the day might offend those who believe in a individual's Right to Diabetes.
The problem with a lot of this that is doesn't address the source and you still have the government playing both sides - they are still subsidizing those who are producing the very substances that are bad, under the guise of "creating jobs". So the more this is done, the more we get more laws of unintended consequences (look at what happened to corn prices when the government decided to promote ethanol as a "cleaner" energy source).

While the above are noble goals, there is always the matter of bureaucracy. You are going after the folks at the end of the food chain, instead of where it starts, which would be more efficient. I can see some many ways things would be exploited by the above, just as other massive programs have been.

The approach that would work best would be to teach healthy food skills (like teaching folks how to cook healthy), exercise (this I agree with the above, I remember having to take and pass fitness tests in grade school as part of advancing to the next grade) and discipline. I would even accept tax credits for fitness - if you are healthy and therefore less likely to have health issues that will cost everyone, why not be rewarded for it. Of course no one has time to cook (but somehow we have lots of time for Facebook and Angry Birds). Discipline these days is a bad word, we might hurt someones feelings. And tax credits for accomplishing something just reeks of unfairness.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 06:40 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Maybe we'll get some help with behavioral issues that hurt our health. The ACA prohibits charging people higher insurance rates if they are sick, but allows higher rates for those who choose to smoke. If the insurance rates are higher for those who choose to eat improperly and are therefore obese (which, like smoking, clearly contributes to higher health care costs), then that might help. To the degree we all pay for each other's health care (subsidies, Medicaid, Medicare), we all have a right to expect people to behave in ways that won't waste (waist?) our money.

I think I saw somebody running with scissors yesterday, too. And a guy standing in the sun without a hat.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,895
People's brain wiring differs. We all must eat, but some folks simply cannot resist eating more than they need. They pretty much can't help it, I suspect.

In a world where huge amounts of food are not readily available, these folks would have to live with constant frustration; but in our world, they can eat all they want, so they do. To ask them to eat less is to ask them to be even more miserable than the weight makes them. I have a morbidly obese close relative who is slowly dying of metabolic illnesses, and has thrown so many psychological barriers in the way of recovery that there really is no hope for her. Constantly posts to web sites promoting "fat acceptance," "curvy is beautiful, and anyone who isn't fat must be anorexic," etc. In every other way a kind, generous woman, but try to get between her and food...and beware.

Amethyst
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 11:41 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,361
I think that before I'd get behind a big intrusive government push, I'd start by just having the government stop being a part of the problem.

Our farm subsidy programs have made corn syrup so cheap that we've added it to almost everything we eat.

It's money we're spending that isn't just inefficient-- it is actually doing us harm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Khufu View Post
The leave-it-to-the-individual approach has already been tried and has failed spectacularly. The trouble is that an advertiser can easily and consistently manipulate a viewer into behaving against his self-interest, even to the point of smoking cigarettes, for instance. The individual, on the average, has no chance against the onslaught of saturation advertising. The fact that some people manage to avoid obesity does not change the fact that obesity can and has been sold effectively to the public as a whole.

The only possible solution is for the govt to deal with it. After all, the anti-smoking campaign by the govt beginning with the Surgeon General's report in 1964 has met with success in that smoking rates have been declining ever since. Had advertising for cigarette smoking not been restricted and public education campaigns not been launched, the rate of smoking would have increased as it has in places like Korea and China. As far as I am aware there is no example of a reduction in smoking in any country that was not the result of a govt program against it. The fact is there is no other agent with the capacity and the stake in the public good to run such a campaign except the govt.

In my opinion the best approach would be for the govt to restrict levels of sugar and fat in processed foods, restrict or eliminate food and restaurant advertising, impose a national tax on the caloric content of restaurant meals , increase physical education in the school system and launch public awareness campaigns to stigmatize overeating in the way that smoking has been. The alternative is that by mid-century as many as a third of Americans could suffer from preventable diabetes, a treatment load that would be likely to swamp the health-care system.

Of course, such a comprehensive approach to the leading public health issue of the day might offend those who believe in a individual's Right to Diabetes.
__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:08 AM   #30
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
If the insurance rates are higher for those who choose to eat improperly and are therefore obese (which, like smoking, clearly contributes to higher health care costs), then that might help. To the degree we all pay for each other's health care (subsidies, Medicaid, Medicare), we all have a right to expect people to behave in ways that won't waste (waist?) our money. .
A disproportionate number of fat people are poor. This is not because they are careless eaters. It is because they have a metabolic disorder caused by poor quality high carbohydrate diet. They eat this garbage because it is cheap. They can not afford a quality diet.

I don't think it is humane to add insult to injury by making them pay extra for the privilege of being ill. Obesity is not a choice people make.
__________________
Aruba50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:16 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
Agreed, for those with disorders. However, everyone can get a salad at McDonald's with coffee instead of a Big Mac, large fries, and large chocolate shake.

By the way the new MdDonald's wraps look great. And they are about 400 calories only. You can make two meals with that, plus exercise, and I promise you will lose weight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post

I don't think it is humane to add insult to injury by making them pay extra for the privilege of being ill. Obesity is not a choice people make.
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #32
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
Agreed, for those with disorders. However, everyone can get a salad at McDonald's with coffee instead of a Big Mac, large fries, and large chocolate shake.
Every single person you see that is morbidly obese has a disorder. They have all tried dieting, you can be sure. They fail because they don't know how to eat properly and their bodies are malfunctioning.

P.S. A wrap is primarily wheat. Wheat is as much a problem as sugar is. It causes metabolic disorders.
__________________
Aruba50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:37 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,841
My top reasons for the obesity epidemic:
  • "Everybody" bought into the wrong idea that "dietary fat is bad"
  • Refined carbohydrates are cheap and have a long shelf life (manufacturers love them)
  • The metabolism of a human animal that is fed on a high carbohydrate diet will tend towards over consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post
The west is getting increasingly fat and suffering all sorts of metabolic disorders including diabetes. This, in spite of the mantra that has been drilled into us regarding fat in our diets.
Not "in spite of" but "because of". The Nutrition Labeling and Education Act of 1990 (NLEA) came about a couple of years after the animated chart in the OP (so the "low fat" mis-information started a few years before that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post
Why? Carbohydrates. When people shunned fat in their diet they replaced it with carbs and we were told that was the right thing to do.
Absolutely agree. Protien is expensive and every calorie less of fat got replaced with a carbohydrate calorie that caused the metabolism of hunger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
The approach that would work best would be to teach healthy food skills (like teaching folks how to cook healthy), exercise....
Who would write the curriculum? Dean Ornish? We'd have another 30 years of obesity, hehe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post
It is because they have a metabolic disorder caused by poor quality high carbohydrate diet. They eat this garbage because it is cheap.
So true.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:39 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
Well I would not be so "sure". But I don't want to argue, it's Saturday, life is good :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post

They have all tried dieting, you can be sure.
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:47 AM   #35
Full time employment: Posting here.
HawkeyeNFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside the Beltway
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50
Obesity is not a choice people make.
Yes it is. People make and repeat bad choices all the time.

Ever been to France? Obesity and even just a fat person are very uncommon.

Here in the US, they're everywhere. It's an effect of lifestyle primarily, with numerous secondary factors.
__________________
HawkeyeNFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:51 AM   #36
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeNFO View Post
Yes it is. People make and repeat bad choices all the time.

Ever been to France? Obesity and even just a fat person are very uncommon.

Here in the US, they're everywhere. It's an effect of lifestyle primarily, with numerous secondary factors.
Obesity in France is less common, yes. Why? They never bought into the insane "fat is bad" religion. They do not eat anything like the high carb diet North Americans do. They eat a lot of cheeses, whole milk and cream and meat. They have not messed up their metabolisms like we have.
__________________
Aruba50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:10 AM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,530
I noticed this trend in the late 90's. All my friends were packing it on. I assumed it was because we were hitting 40, and midlife set in. That may be part of it, but there's more.

The government changed to the "pyramid" at that time. Fat was totally evil. People felt entitled to no-fat sugary cereals and similar foods.

Me too. I gained weight, even though I had done the low carb thing as a teenager in the 70s during its first fad.

3 years ago, it hit me like a hammer. Enough is Enough! Lost 30 lbs using a southbeach approach. I love my daily salad, with plenty of feta and olive oil. Hello eggs, glad to have you back! I do have some carbs, but try to keep it to beans and occasional whole wheat as a treat. And I do have a thing for greek yogurt.

I struggle, though. I am a simple carb addict. I fell down over the holidays and was away from home. I gained some which I am now working on again. I just finished a nice turkey-egg-cheese stacker for breakfast.

After my most recent "conversion" to again watch the carbs, I am astounded by TV advertising (mentioned above). They are just hitting us constantly with sugary foods. There is this one series of ads aimed at women about "sinning", showing a nice thin model eating some no-fat, high carb treat. No, no, no! She probably pukes daily and chain smokes to look like that!
__________________
JoeWras is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:17 AM   #38
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruba50 View Post
I don't think it is humane to add insult to injury by making them pay extra for the privilege of being ill. Obesity is not a choice people make.
I beg to differ. While it is hard to change habits formed in childhood (yes, it's often the parents' fault), it's certainly doable. So unless you have a medical condition that propels you to eat, it's certainly a choice you make.
__________________
Letj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:38 AM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letj View Post
I beg to differ. While it is hard to change habits formed in childhood (yes, it's often the parents' fault), it's certainly doable. So unless you have a medical condition that propels you to eat, it's certainly a choice you make.
+1

The obesity in the US has come on quite suddenly in the grand scheme of time. It's unlikely that our genetics have changed that quickly, so that means the cause is ultimately behavioral.

I love certain foods like pasta and also rich, cream-based desserts and delicacies. I have the means and the ability to eat enormous amounts of these. I *want* to eat lots of these, but I choose to eat them in moderation because I want to be thin and healthy MORE.

Likewise, I could afford to live in a much nicer home or drive a much more expensive car. I want both of these things, but I choose my more modest house and older-but-fine-car because I want FI/RE MORE.

The key word above being "choice". I realize individuals' means vary and a small portion of the US population truly doesn't have a choice. But there is a bigger and significant portion of the population in both scenarios who have enough means to have a real choice, but make the "wrong" choice and then bitch the result.
__________________
someguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,615
Just a random observation:

I've lost count of the number of people who have commented that "you put on about a pound a year after you reach adulthood."

That does seem to be generally true (on average, for most Americans), so it has become a generally accepted rule of thumb.

Since it is so generally accepted, many of us consider it "normal" and don't get concerned when we see it happening to us.

I'm personally convinced that this psychological factor plays a significant role in the current overweight/obesity "epidemic."
__________________

__________________
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.