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Old 05-09-2012, 02:40 PM   #141
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A lot of people have concluded that if they go low carb, but then revert to the standard American diet, that when, even years later, they go low-carb again, it is not as effective. I think they say that your first time is your "golden opportunity."
Do you know if this is true? It would seem really odd if it were.

Ha
No, I sure don't. I'd say that no one knows, since it would be very difficult to do, or even design, the proper experiment.

It is reported frequently, however. One confounding variable is that when you retry low-carb you are older.

Low Carb Luxury: One Golden Shot
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:04 PM   #142
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In the research presented by Atkins, a calorie is a calorie (except alcohol) but that low carb suppresses your hunger so you eat less.

The non-carb alcohol (vodka, gin, scotch, etc) reduces weight loss by tying your liver up processing alcohol and not converting fat.
Hummm, I missed that chapter. I have been drinking my normal glass or two of wine with impunity. I guess I better take advantage of this "golden opportunity," "one shot," or whatever it is since I do like my wine.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:20 PM   #143
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No, I sure don't. I'd say that no one knows, since it would be very difficult to do, or even design, the proper experiment.

It is reported frequently, however. One confounding variable is that when you retry low-carb you are older.

Low Carb Luxury: One Golden Shot

Sounds to me there is something else going on here... and I think age might be it... there are a lot of things that I could do easily when I was young that I fight 'tooth and nail' now...

Now, if there were a group of 60 yo and started this diet for the first time and had great results compared to another 60 yo group who had done it many times... seems like somebody is making something up....
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:38 PM   #144
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Hummm, I missed that chapter. I have been drinking my normal glass or two of wine with impunity. I guess I better take advantage of this "golden opportunity," "one shot," or whatever it is since I do like my wine.
White wine is about 2 or 3 gm of carbs for 6 oz. Red is around 6 gm. It makes a significant difference after a few glasses. If you're tying to lose weight, any wine pretty much shuts it down.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:04 PM   #145
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The "set point" theory would potentially explain this but it doesn't explain why more and more people are getting fatter. The idea that we are all eating way more seems ludicrous. The content of our diets is more likely the culprit.
I'm pretty sure that our metabolisms slow down dramatically after age 25, and maybe even again in our 40s. As America's Baby Boomers age, that could be one explanation for "everybody" getting fatter.

Compared to the 1960s when everyone was smoking & drinking more, I bet adults really were eating less food then.

Every time I see a WWII photo with military in it, they're pretty scrawny. This seems to hold across all the services, deployed or stateside. Of course that could be selection bias on the part of the photographer or the website.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:16 PM   #146
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White wine is about 2 or 3 gm of carbs for 6 oz. Red is around 6 gm. It makes a significant difference after a few glasses. If you're tying to lose weight, any wine pretty much shuts it down.
I count the carbs but the extra 6-12g is OK with me. Hasn't slowed down my weight loss - or maybe it has but it is still steady enough that I don't care. Give up chocolate - tough. White foods - tougher. Wine - no way.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:08 PM   #147
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I count the carbs but the extra 6-12g is OK with me. Hasn't slowed down my weight loss - or maybe it has but it is still steady enough that I don't care. Give up chocolate - tough. White foods - tougher. Wine - no way.
You don't need to give up chocolate, I have it every day. You do need to make your own, and I have some good recipes. Google coconut bark for one example.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:39 AM   #148
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You don't need to give up chocolate, I have it every day. You do need to make your own, and I have some good recipes. Google coconut bark for one example.
I have tried a couple and they are OK. It just doesn't match eating an entire 8 oz bag of Cadbury Mini Eggs in one sitting - something I frequently did at my peak.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:08 AM   #149
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The worst carb is added refined sugar, IMHO. I am limiting that and it seems to work. I have dropped several pounds in the last month without trying very hard (other than resisting sugary goodies.)
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:26 AM   #150
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The worst carb is added refined sugar, IMHO. I am limiting that and it seems to work. I have dropped several pounds in the last month without trying very hard (other than resisting sugary goodies.)
You can always drop a few pounds by quitting something bad. I used to carry 12 lbs of beer weight in my heavy drinking days. If I quit drinking I'd drop about 12 lbs in a couple weeks. Sugary foods much less so, since I never ate that much. But in my experience as a diabetic, white bread is by far the worst offender blood sugar-wise. I guess it comes down to what you eat the most of, but I can eat something sugary (ice cream, usually) and it doesn't freak my blood sugar level out anywhere near what a few slices of tasty sourdough will do. I believe that in the glycemic index list white bread is higher than refined sugar, or at least even.

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Nutritionists used to believe that all simple sugars digested quickly and caused a rapid rise in blood sugar, and that the opposite was true for "complex carbohydrates". But that's not always the case. While many sweet and sugary foods do have high GI's, some starchy foods like potatoes or white bread score even higher than honey or table sugar (sucrose)!
Glycemic Index – NutritionData.com
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:44 AM   #151
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I have tried a couple and they are OK. It just doesn't match eating an entire 8 oz bag of Cadbury Mini Eggs in one sitting - something I frequently did at my peak.
Donfheff - just for you: xkcd: Cadbury Eggs
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:46 AM   #152
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Donfheff - just for you: xkcd: Cadbury Eggs
LOL.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #153
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But in my experience as a diabetic, white bread is by far the worst offender blood sugar-wise. I guess it comes down to what you eat the most of, but I can eat something sugary (ice cream, usually) and it doesn't freak my blood sugar level out anywhere near what a few slices of tasty sourdough will do.
My Dad was a 50 year veteran of DM2 when he died at age 87. IMO, his medical advice and care were excremental, but he was smart and even though meters did not exist for the public, he could tell that some high quality premium ice cream bothered him much less than bread, and also that beer was out. He went all the way, and became a teetotaler. Those of us who have sugar issues can get down about it, but then I think how well some of these oldtimers did with very little intelligent advice, it seems that maybe there is more room than we often assume.

Looking back, most people ate a lot of carbs, exactly which ones depending mainly of their ethnicity and what their wives felt comfortable preparing. (Men cooking was mostly a profession, or a ceremonial thing.) In my Dad's case, he felt that allowing himself to gain maybe 30# of beer belly was the tipover. Another thing that happened was that we moved to my great-grandmother's old house, and Dad had his daily 2 mile walk to and from the busline cut to 50 yards or so. He had already given up his twin sports of handball and swimming, so he essentially becasme sedentary when we moved. I thik this can be an underrated factor.

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Old 05-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #154
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As a sort of ultimate government lie, the "food triangle" we all learned about when we were in school where we had to have so many servings of grain, so many of vegetables and, finally, a lower amount of meat. That came out of the US Department of Agriculture in the Depression Era. It's intent was to increase the consumption of grain products (bread) and was not based on any scientific nutritional research. That's per the Atkins research summary I read.

I haven't seen the "food triangle" in quite awhile. I don't know if it's on the Department of Agriculture's website.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #155
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I haven't seen the "food triangle" in quite awhile. I don't know if it's on the Department of Agriculture's website.
Here ya go:
Low-Carb Pavilion - Food Pyramid for Fat People or Diabetics
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #156
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Well, my first test results are in after about 5 weeks of LCHF (with some digressions at restaurants). Until January I had been on statins for about 15 years. My total cholesterol in the beginning of January was 202 and my doctor recommended increasing the statins to 80mg/day from 40mg. Two weeks later DW and I both stopped taking statins for a variety of reasons so my cholesterol levels could be expected to soar and they did. But 5 weeks ago I dropped the carb levels pretty substantially but not to an Atkins level 1 or 2, more like level 3 or 4 (maintenance). I have been typically at about 50 g of carbs a day with frequent forays toward 100g and one dynamite meal in NYC at about 300g

So here are my numbers:

January 2012
Total Cholesterol 202
HDL ...................67
LDL ..................108
Triglycerides ......137

Yesterday:
Total Cholesterol 241
HDL ...................86
LDL ..................137
Triglycerides .......91

So total cholesterol and LDL are in the high or borderline level, but protective HDL and triglycerides are both squarely in the good range. My intent at this point is to watch and see what happens. I am not worried about the LDL reading (no CHD in my family, I am now skinny and don't smoke) but if it stays high I may ask for a more detailed lipid panel that measures those little and big particles. I visit the doc again in June (new doc this time) and will see what she has to say. Any thoughts are welcome.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #157
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Do you have any scope for more exercise? [Forgive me if this was already discussed] I and friends have helped our chol. with exercise.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:58 AM   #158
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Do you have any scope for more exercise? [Forgive me if this was already discussed] I and friends have helped our chol. with exercise.
There is always scope for more but I do a fair amount. High intensity weights one or two times a week (I am following a protocol that would caution against more of this). 30 mile bike rides 2-4 times a week. Various walks, with the dogs, around the neighborhood, etc. - no where near 10,000 steps a day.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #159
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Yesterday:
Total Cholesterol 241
HDL ...................86
LDL ..................137
Triglycerides .......91


I may ask for a more detailed lipid panel that measures those little and big particles. I visit the doc again in June (new doc this time) and will see what she has to say. Any thoughts are welcome.
Don, you seem to be doing very well, so keep it up.

My understanding is that HDL below 40 and Triglycerides above 120 are factors associated with small LDL particle size.
Your old trig value was worrying, but your current numbers seem to indicate that your LDL particles are the nice big fluffy kind.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #160
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My understanding is that the triglyceride/hdl ratio should be under 2. Your's is close to 1, so that seems very good by that standard.

My ratio was above 2 until I started taking the statins. They brough it comfortably under 2. Once retired, I hope that a better diet and more opportunity to exercise will lower it further and remove the need for the statins. Until that time, though, the statins seem like a safe precaution.

Note: I have no medical expertise.
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