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Old 04-08-2008, 10:08 PM   #41
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Sorry I haven't had any tequila tonight. Im slow

Thanks for the explanation.

While we're on the subject of universal health care and everyone paying for everyone else's health care........ or nobody paying for anyone else's healthcare, however it works out.....

Per LBYM guidelines, I've been trying to drink to the bottom of the liquor cabinet and the refridgerator to empty it all out and then make a big run to the liquor store with the pickup truck and start fresh with all my favorite basics and no chick wine, strange liquers or other stuff DW sneaks in. Well, after almost three months on not buying anything, I'm down to two half bottles of booze; one vodka and one gin. I have nothing in the house that makes sense to mix with them. No Tonic. No Squirt. Not even any OJ. How can universal health care help me with this? Perhaps I could use the gin to sterilize surgical instruments?
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:09 PM   #42
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While we're on the subject of universal health care and everyone paying for everyone else's health care........ or nobody paying for anyone else's healthcare, however it works out.....

Per LBYM guidelines, I've been trying to drink to the bottom of the liquor cabinet and the refridgerator to empty it all out and then make a big run to the liquor store with the pickup truck and start fresh with all my favorite basics and no chick wine, strange liquers or other stuff DW sneaks in. Well, after almost three months on not buying anything, I'm down to two half bottles of booze; one vodka and one gin. I have nothing in the house that makes sense to mix with them. No Tonic. No Squirt. Not even any OJ. How can universal health care help me with this? Perhaps I could use the gin to sterilize surgical instruments?
Do it yourself surgery. Numbing agent along with sterilization. We should write a book.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:09 PM   #43
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...... Perhaps I could use the gin to sterilize surgical instruments?
How about corn ethanol?
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:18 PM   #44
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Do it yourself surgery. Numbing agent along with sterilization. We should write a book.
Sounds like an idea for the euthanasia thread......
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:26 PM   #45
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Amazes me you do whatever you can to turn every thread into your political agenda soapbox. We get it you love the change guy. Everyone else is bad and dumb..
On the contrary, every time I read these forums there are multiple threads full of opinions that support conservative ideas which I fail to respond to.
I have made very few posts regarding my political beliefs. It's too bad that you feel so insecure that you need to make a personal attack when confronted by a post that challenges your beliefs.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:31 PM   #46
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Do it yourself surgery. Numbing agent along with sterilization. We should write a book.
It would be very "green" & "sustainable" too. Perhaps a topic for the New American Dream online magazine?
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:42 PM   #47
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On the contrary, every time I read these forums there are multiple threads full of opinions that support conservative ideas which I fail to respond to.
I have made very few posts regarding my political beliefs. It's too bad that you feel so insecure that you need to make a personal attack when confronted by a post that challenges your beliefs.
I apologize to NotMuchLonger and to the forum for this post. I don't usually take these discussions personally and respond this way. I guess my political button was trigger-happy tonight.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:48 PM   #48
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Based on this thread, I've decided I won't not vote for McCain (double negative intended) because of his health plan. But I might vote for Hill or Barack based on theirs....... if they really have the answers.

Rather than just negatives about McCain's plan, are there any positive comments about specifics of the other's plans? Not their plans as they relate to McCain's, but specifics of their plans as they stand on their own.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:08 AM   #49
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Any candidate that does not make SS and Health care the top priority will not get my vote.

So the one that seems to have the most credible plan is my candidate. The republicans are stonewalling these problems. It is the game plan. Kind words (lip service). Do nothin.

McCain does not see these programs as priorities. He is too wrapped up in Iraq.

Because of that... I will most likely vote non-republican this year.

It's the economy, SS, and health care stupid!
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:56 AM   #50
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Oh, it's quite visible to me thank you (having just seen a 26K radiation bill come in the mail this very evening) - & yes between "means" & "insurance" (brought on by years of work, LBYM, & planning with my eyes wide open) we are managing quite fine.
Texarkandy, you and are are among the millions of people for whom the current system works just fine. A few years ago I went through perhaps $50K of surgery, radiation and drug therapy at an out-of-pocket cost of about $1K. For me, the system works great.

But there are other millions out there, who work as hard as I do, who live as thriftily as I do, who either don't have access to subsidized health insurance or who cannot afford what is offered. I think we can find a way to make sure they have access to the same good health care that we have. And I think we have a moral obligation to do so.

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Old 04-09-2008, 01:49 PM   #51
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Martha,

With all due respect (sincerely), have you scrutinized the "plans" of Obama and Hillary and found either significantly better/more convincing? Seems the choice among candidates is SOP politics once again, the 'lesser of all evils' offered. I can't remember anyone I've voted for that I thought had every single issue answered with what I wanted to hear (and never expect to).

And on healthcare specifically, I think it's inevitable that we will have universal healthcare eventually. But I don't think it's going to happen suddenly no matter what any candidate promises while campaigning.

And if we did suddenly get universal healthcare, can you imagine the FIRE stampede?
Yes, I have read their proposals and Rich posted a link with a good comparison. The democrats have plans. McCain really does not have a plan and it is apparent it is not a major issue for him. None of the plans are set up the way I would set up a plan. But of the three, McCain's is the worst.

I want a plan that will have a mechanism so everyone can get health insurance if an insurance model is followed. I do not see this as an impossible task. We can limit or eliminate underwriting. Or we can provide subsidizes. Or we can have a nationwide risk pool. We can fund Medicaid and have it cover everyone that is poor. Or we could open Medicare for all. There are many possibilities.

In the Bush years, other than the Medicare drug plan, the only other significant program which was offered benefited the healthy with money, specifically health savings accounts. I want something that benefits the unhealthy. And those without money. At least under Clinton administration we got group health insurance portability which helped job lock to some extent and helped reduce the ability of insurance companies to cancel your policy for no good reason.

McCain's proposals do absolutely nothing for people with preexisting illnesses. And I see nothing that will get health insurance or health care to the working poor and those not eligible for Medicaid. Under current law, if you not disabled and don't have young children, even though you might be dirt poor there is no Medicaid for you.

For those who criticize Hillary on the basis that the plan she put forward never went anywhere, I think that is not a valid criticism. The time was not right. Instead, I think of Hillary as having the most education on the issue. Since that plan was proposed, many millions more are without health insurance and many employers that used to oppose any kind of national solution now are supportive of a national solution. The opposition was very strong at the time. In the face of increased costs and increased numbers of the uninsured, that opposition has wanned to some extent. Even a number of staunch conservatives here would like to see something done to eliminate cherry picking, adverse selection, and want to see a safety net for the poor. SamClem is a good example.

I do doubt that there would be a huge race to retire early if there was national health insurance. People aren't rich enough.

Well, I could talk all day on the issue. . .
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:54 PM   #52
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Amazes me you do whatever you can to turn every thread into your political agenda soapbox. We get it you love the change guy. Everyone else is bad and dumb..



God Bless
I know Oldbabe apologized, but I appreciate her frustration and I think no apology is needed. She can't find someone to sell her health insurance. Isn't that frightening? In that position I certainly would be on a soap box too. And McCain's plan does nothing for her at all.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:54 PM   #53
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"McCain's proposals do absolutely nothing for people with preexisting illnesses"

I dont like that either. I would hope the Democratic congress at the time would make McCain adjust that. Im not going to get in a pissing war over politics. Sorry pick someone else.
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:57 PM   #54
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I know Oldbabe apologized, but I appreciate her frustration and I think no apology is needed. She can't find someone to sell her health insurance. Isn't that frightening? In that position I certainly would be on a soap box too. And McCain's plan does nothing for her at all.
I dont like Obama. Im don't sit and bash anyone who chooses to vote for him do I. Its not just saying hey I dont like so and so's plan. Its when people start going "hey I cant believe anyone would vote for that guy he must be an idiot." Thats the part the sticks in my craw. This thread was fine till people made it political and not a comparison about the plans.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:07 PM   #55
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"McCain's proposals do absolutely nothing for people with preexisting illnesses"

I dont like that either. I would hope the Democratic congress at the time would make McCain adjust that. Im not going to get in a pissing war over politics. Sorry pick someone else.
I don't believe I targeted you for a pissing war on politics.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:08 PM   #56
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I don't believe I targeted you for a pissing war on politics.

Good you intimidate me.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:17 PM   #57
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:18 PM   #58
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I know Lynda Carter and all
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:09 PM   #59
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So the one that seems to have the most credible plan is my candidate.
It's just too bad that Hill's and Ob's plans are vague and their attitude about successful enactment stinks. They may be less vague than McCain's, but they're vague nonetheless. And, as typical, neither has even secured the nomination and yet both are already blaming the "stonewalling Republicans" for the Dems future failure to get an extensive med plan enacted. Why do they insist on putting the excuses and blame for failure out in front of even attempting to get the job done?

I want to send someone to Washington who accepts the responsibility for getting the changes made. Not someone who says they are the one(s) to get the job done but don't blame us when we fail in the future 'cause it ain't our fault. It's those bad guys on the other side of the aisle...... Sick...........
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:17 PM   #60
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Good thread ... what is being overlooked is how the 3 candidates plan to PAY for thier proposed changes. I'll summarize:

McCain - No plan. He at least realizes higher taxes are the third rail of politics.

Hillary/Obama - Raise taxes for those making +250k.

Now we all know there are not enough wage earners making +250k to tax to provide health care for entire country ... sooo the bar will be lowered to entrap this entire board.

NO THANKS! I'll just keep making my $680/month payments to BC/BS for my family of 4.
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