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Old 11-23-2013, 10:19 PM   #21
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Here's a link to another good article on what really causes heart disease:

http://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-Surgeon-Speaks-Out-On-What-Really-Causes-Heart-Disease
On the other hand, this article about the "heart surgeon" above was linked in the comments:

A Skeptical Look at Dwight Lundell, M.D.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mikefixac View Post
Can someone tell me how an alcoholic drink have only 1 carb and yet have 150 calories? I've never understood that?

If the 3 macronutrients are fat, protein and carbs, does that mean fat and protein make up the 146 remaining calories?
Macronutrients are defined as being essential for survival. So, alcohol is not a macronutrient.

But, Alcohol is the 4th dietary substance we can consume that contains calories.

McKinley Health Center - Macronutrients: the Importance of Carbohydrate, Protein, and Fat - University of Illinois
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:46 AM   #23
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My experience is teaching me that the issue is not a choice between low fat or low carb. Instead the choice is between junk (fats and carbs) and quality (fats and carbs).

Processed foods with fats and carbs are mostly in the junk category, while whole foods are mostly quality.

There are always exceptions; I choose to avoid the whole food Wheat and have removed it from my list of quality foods. Sugars and sweeteners are almost always on the junk list. Carrots and berries, with their high sugar content, are on the quality list.

So, my healthy diet has replaced (equal calorie portions) pepperoni pizza with Grilled fish, baked sweet potato and grass fed butter.

In fact, that was dinner tonight and here's some info from my log

Dinner Calories Carbs Fat Protein Fiber Sugar
Generic - Fresh Halibut, Grilled, 210 0 4 42 0 0
Sweet potato - baked in skin 154 35 0 3 6 14
Butter - Salted, 3 tbsp 305 0 35 0 0 0
TOTAL 669 35 39 43 6 14

Nothing low carb or low fat in that quality meal.

My experience is I am better able to control my hunger and not over eat by choosing quality fats and carbs and avoiding the junk. Portion control is a major key to maintaining optimal weight.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:52 AM   #24
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Is the low carb diet fad still going on? What'll be next? The nutritional yeast diet?
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:00 AM   #25
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Is the low carb diet fad still going on? What'll be next? The nutritional yeast diet?
Not only is it still "going on" but it is no longer reasonable to describe it as a fad. Sweden officially adopted LCHF as it's recommended dietary regime. It is of course possible that they got it wrong, just like many of us argue that the US got it wrong with low fat. But it seems arbitrary to dismiss as a fad or fringe a health guideline adopted by a first world country after careful study.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:55 AM   #26
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Can someone tell me how an alcoholic drink have only 1 carb and yet have 150 calories? I've never understood that?

If the 3 macronutrients are fat, protein and carbs, does that mean fat and protein make up the 146 remaining calories?
Alcohol (which is not one of the other macronutrients) has calories.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:20 AM   #27
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I think you paint with too broad a brush here. I do tend to believe that lowish carb eating is good, higher protein is probably OK (but it is possible to eat too much protein) and that refined grains don't provide any nutritional benefits. I do avoid eating refined grains but I'm not extreme about it. That is, I don't think that occasional refined grains are all that harmful for most people.
I agree. I think there is some truth to most diets. My philosophy is, for some reason, extremely hard to follow for some. Many people need their diet to be strict and religion like to be able to follow it. I prefer just to not eat too much, eat what I like in *moderation*, exercise and keep my weight down. It's pretty simple and nothing people like to write books about.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #28
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I tried low carb...felt like I was gonna die. I'm a carbo guy. I can eat lots of bread etc and lose weight as long as I stay away from beer (damn) and fatty junk foods. I just don't follow my plan......
If you every try again, go ahead and get the New Atkins book and follow it to the letter, including the increased salt when you're doing very low carbs.

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Originally Posted by mikefixac View Post
Can someone tell me how an alcoholic drink have only 1 carb and yet have 150 calories? I've never understood that?

If the 3 macronutrients are fat, protein and carbs, does that mean fat and protein make up the 146 remaining calories?
Ethanol has about 7 calories per gram and is consumed by the body preferentially ahead of 'the big 3'. I do not agree that ethanol is not essential to life
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #29
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I agree. I think there is some truth to most diets. My philosophy is, for some reason, extremely hard to follow for some. Many people need their diet to be strict and religion like to be able to follow it. I prefer just to not eat too much, eat what I like in *moderation*, exercise and keep my weight down. It's pretty simple and nothing people like to write books about.
The central issue is probably your point that some people find this extremely hard to follow. Many of us slowly gained weight as we aged and found it very difficult to control if we tried to limit fats and count calories. Holding back the waistline creep required constant vigilance which was next to impossible. Extensive exercise had no impact on weight (although still valuable for other reasons). The advantage of flipping the dietary guidance on it's back by cutting carbs was that many of us found that we can completely stop focusing on how much we eat. The calories take care of themselves when the macro nutrients are right. Or, probably more accurately, the calories take care of themselves for those of us who are fortunate enough to flourish on this dietary approach. Not all do.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:52 AM   #30
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I tried low carb...felt like I was gonna die. I'm a carbo guy. I can eat lots of bread etc and lose weight as long as I stay away from beer (damn) and fatty junk foods. I just don't follow my plan......

Thats out of the question.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:55 AM   #31
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Not only is it still "going on" but it is no longer reasonable to describe it as a fad. Sweden officially adopted LCHF as it's recommended dietary regime. It is of course possible that they got it wrong, just like many of us argue that the US got it wrong with low fat. But it seems arbitrary to dismiss as a fad or fringe a health guideline adopted by a first world country after careful study.
Our country is in denial. We keep pushing whole grains and low fat foods, and we keep getting fatter. The FDA doesn't want to admit it was just wrong. And our rate of being overweight or obese is now approaching 70%. It's just plain embarrassing that a country as productive and intelligent as the United States can't figure out how to control it's weight, and in spite of all the bad advice we've been given by the FDA, they just keep saying the same things over and over...and we keep getting fatter.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:01 AM   #32
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I don't think that whole grain bread is empty calories. I eat sandwiches sometimes (a few times a week maybe) and I eat them on whole grain bread. I don't think that is the end of the world.
In the same sense that eating a few candy bars a week is not the end of the world, yes I would agree with you. However, I believe that a sandwich is truly one of the least healthy foods we can eat, and we sure eat a lot of them in this country. Eating bread can spike your insulin levels even more than eating a candy bar. And most of the foods we put in the sandwich are highly salted, cured, and loaded with nitrites.

However, with all that being said, if the foods you are eating are making you feel good, and are keeping you at the appropriate weight for optimum health, then don't listen to any of this stuff! Just keep doing what you're doing if it's working, because that matters more than any of this theoretical stuff!
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:04 AM   #33
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if the foods you are eating are making you feel good, and are keeping you at the appropriate weight for optimum health, then don't listen to any of this stuff! Just keep doing what you're doing if it's working, because that matters more than any of this theoretical stuff!
Exactly!
It works both ways, too. My doctor is mystified at my great blood test numbers and stable weight, since he disagrees with my LCHF diet. Every year he says the same thing: "I don't understand it, but just keep doing what you're doing."
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:05 AM   #34
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Thats out of the question.
I know. Beer is what makes life worth livin'! But I found a way. I follow a roughly 60%, 35%, 5% diet (calories from fat, protien, carbohydrate) six days a week and one night a week I eat whatever I want and have awesome beer with my food (plain old American pilsners are so not worth the carbs).
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:02 AM   #35
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Our country is in denial. We keep pushing whole grains and low fat foods, and we keep getting fatter. The FDA doesn't want to admit it was just wrong. And our rate of being overweight or obese is now approaching 70%. It's just plain embarrassing that a country as productive and intelligent as the United States can't figure out how to control it's weight, and in spite of all the bad advice we've been given by the FDA, they just keep saying the same things over and over...and we keep getting fatter.
Every board and just about everyone I read touts a low carb diet. Yesterday at the mall's food court, it was filled with people. I was watching which fast food places were most busy and a vegan place in which no one, and I mean no one even went to look at their offerings.

So it seems to me, low carb has been growing in popularity for quite some time. Though the purveyors themselves appear to have problems with obesity.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:28 PM   #36
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if the foods you are eating are making you feel good, and are keeping you at the appropriate weight for optimum health, then don't listen to any of this stuff! Just keep doing what you're doing if it's working, because that matters more than any of this theoretical stuff!
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #37
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Not only is it still "going on" but it is no longer reasonable to describe it as a fad. Sweden officially adopted LCHF as it's recommended dietary regime. It is of course possible that they got it wrong, just like many of us argue that the US got it wrong with low fat. But it seems arbitrary to dismiss as a fad or fringe a health guideline adopted by a first world country after careful study.
Can you find a better source for that claim? A Swedish scientific committee released a thorough meta-study but nothing that I found (besides on low-carb advocate sites) indicates that it's "officially adopted" as their recommended dietary regime.

Also, from the study (Google translation),

"In the long term there are no differences in the effect on weight loss between counsel on strict and moderate carbohydrate diet, low-fat diets, h÷gproteinkost, Mediterranean diet, diet focuses on low glycemic load diet or a high proportion of monounsaturated fats."

"There is no basis for assessing whether even advice, eg, low carbohydrate diet and a Mediterranean diet is effective in preventing weight gain after weight loss."

"The evidence is also insufficient to assess the effect on mortality, morbidity or weight loss in obese individuals by studying the following foods: fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, potatoes, soy products, meat and meat products."

"In the short term (six months) is advice on strict or moderate carbohydrate diet more effective for weight loss than advice on low-fat diets." (So, yes, it's better for short-term weight loss compared to old school low-fat-diets.)

From a 2010 (meta?) study by the same committee:

"There are no studies of sufficient quality to be able to assess the long-term effects in people with diabetes of more extreme low carbohydrate, high fat intake, such as so-called LCHF diet." (1)

They also didn't come to a conclusion regarding saturated fat, though it wasn't in the summary and I can't get a translation of the entire thing.

I called it a fad because it appears that the Mediterranean diet is just as effective as low-carb. Low-carb is just the diet du jour. That's fine, and it appears to have healthy benefits, but it's not the end-all be-all. The real benefit to low-carb (and Med. and h÷gproteinkost and...) is deliberately making choices about eating and avoiding processed foods. E.g., avoid the Standard American Diet (or Standard Swedish Diet, in this case).



(1) SBU. Cuisine in diabetes. A systematic review. Stockholm: Swedish Council on Technology Assessment in Health Care (SBU), in 2010. SBU Report No. 201. ISBN 978-91-85413-37-9.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #38
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Can you find a better source for that claim? A Swedish scientific committee released a thorough meta-study but nothing that I found (besides on low-carb advocate sites) indicates that it's "officially adopted" as their recommended dietary regime.
Quickly Googling the topic I suspect you may be correct. My bad.
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I called it a fad because it appears that the Mediterranean diet is just as effective as low-carb.
I don't see why the existence of two effective approaches would make one a fad. Couldn't you just turn your statement around and say studies have show the LCHF diet to be as effective as the Mediterranean diet for weight loss thus the Med diet is just a fad? I don't see why either construction makes sense.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #39
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On the other hand, this article about the "heart surgeon" above was linked in the comments:

A Skeptical Look at Dwight Lundell, M.D.
The website you linked to above, "Quackwatch", was founded and is funded by the pharmaceutical industry. Of course they are going to do whatever they can to try to discredit anyone who puts out information that could affect their profits (and believe me, selling statin drugs is enormously profitable). In my mind, Dr. Stephen Barrett of "Quackwatch" is the real quack.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:39 PM   #40
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I don't see why the existence of two effective approaches would make one a fad. Couldn't you just turn your statement around and say studies have show the LCHF diet to be as effective as the Mediterranean diet for weight loss thus the Med diet is just a fad? I don't see why either construction makes sense.
Yes, both would be a fad. Or neither.

It was a poor choice of words.
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