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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-09-2007, 09:57 AM   #21
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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Today they can afford/have access to junk food--often even cheaper and more available than good food.
I agree with you, however the study clearly shows that that doesn't make a difference. For example, twins raised apart weighed the same even if one had more access to junk food.

The study suggested that there was a 20 pound range that each person is predelicted to stay within. Perhaps that 20 pound range can account for the increase in obesity

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a number of mean spirited naturally skinny posters
They're not mean spirited. They're just bitchy cause they're hungry.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-09-2007, 10:43 AM   #22
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

The thing that interests me is the increasing number of grossly fat people -- morbidly obese, in the medical lingo. The humungo-Americans we've all seen. "Obese", as used in medical articles, just means "somewhat fat" in every day usage. Thirty pounds overweight is "obese" technically, but not in casual chat.

On my recent China trip, I saw plenty of overweight Chinese (another sign of the growing middle class!), but only one humungo-Chinese -- and he was at the low end of the humungo-scale. And the Chinese eat a lot of oil in their diet, at least to judge by the restaurants we went to. But American-style junk food cost there about what it costs here, which means it is 10 times as expensive relative to their incomes.

My personal theory on the rise of humungo-Americans is too much junk food as small kids (under 5) -- potato chips, etc -- predisposing the body for fatness later. But this is probably wrong, and probably already proven wrong to boot.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-09-2007, 11:34 AM   #23
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

In 1907?
Soon-to-be-president Taft, I believe. A person of (physical) substance such as he would be unelectable today from whatever party even if he/she gave cars away like Oprah. I see a lot of vitriol aimed Gore's way for his middle-aged spread for some odd reason.. Puritan hold-overs, to my mind...

My mom's family was pretty thin and very Yankee Brahmin. They never ate much 'cause the food they cooked was so G-D- awful you can't imagine! They ate just to survive (Grumpy Old Man: "and they LIKED it that way!"). Anything not grey and overcooked was deemed an exaggeration whether of taste (think completely petrified meat, chicken and fish) or of nutrition (vegetables suspect upon retention of original color). Spices were salt, limited powder-fine pepper ancient and tasteless after 10 or 20 years over the stove (hey! you only need to purchase one container per household per lifetime.. why "waste"?), and woohhooo for real pizzazz- celery salt! A salad was something French people ate.

I take after my chubby Irish Grandma who ate butter by the chunk and lived into her mid-80s (here's hopin' 'cause I don't really feel like trying to reach three digits).


In China? The Buddha.

Maybe there are more fat/fattish people today because their genes won out? It's also curious when you look at current Native American populations and the Inuit they are fairly chubby.. could be that a long history of very hard-scrabble living perhaps caused their bodies to become more efficient with time?

And yes, the 'optimal' weight / obesity tables have been ratcheting down along with people's perceptions. There's a lot of argument over, for example, Marilyn Monroe's dress size.. but whatever the measurement, it clearly wasn't a size 6 or 4 or 2 (or size ZERO -- that just makes me wonder what happens when you get below size ZERO). Do you exist, but in another dimension?

Elizabeth Hurley said she would kill herself if she were as "fat" as Marilyn.
Hey babe, knock yourself out.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-09-2007, 10:21 PM   #24
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
The research seems sound, but if that's true, answer this:

Why are people fatter today than they were 20 years ago? Their genes have not changed.
I have similar questions. The twin studies are compelling, but genetics just don't change that quickly - they can't be accounting for our collective rise in average weight. I don't discount genetics, by any means. But I also think our "modern" food system is really messed up and pushing a lot of foods at us that are unhealthy or overprocessed. That has to be making a difference.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-09-2007, 10:30 PM   #25
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

I think its mostly people have become lazy and dont pay attention to the foods they stick in their bodies. Thats the biggest change in 20 years. Kids dont go out and play anymore its sit in front of the TV and play non active games.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 01:54 AM   #26
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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What an interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Being the melting pot of the world, I wonder why Americans have so much more of a problem with obesity than other countries?
I keep wondering how much has to do with the stuff we feed our livestock to make sure they plump up nice and quick. That might at least explain why we have more problem with obesity in the US than other nations, where they also sit around a lot, eat all the wrong foods, and presumably are genetically very similar.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 02:28 AM   #27
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

Whether this is relevant or not, I go organic and don't eat dairy products made from cows with rbst or other growth hormones.

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Originally Posted by LKH
I keep wondering how much has to do with the stuff we feed our livestock to make sure they plump up nice and quick. That might at least explain why we have more problem with obesity in the US than other nations, where they also sit around a lot, eat all the wrong foods, and presumably are genetically very similar.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 03:47 AM   #28
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

LKH.. I wouldn't be surprised if hormones had something to do with it. I remember this being fingered also in very precocious onset of puberty in some areas of either Mexico or Latin/South America; not sure if the charges stuck.

I also remember reading somewhere about the ever-increasing amount of corn that we ingest, a lot of it without thinking about it, since so many processed foods have corn syrup and modified food (i.e, corn) starch these days, replacing sugar and wheat flour. (Go ADM and corn subsidies!). Not to mention that besides the chemicals, what plumps up cattle nowadays is corn.

It's certainly possible our bodies process these in a slightly different way rather than just being about sheer # of calories. Something to for someone to look into if they haven't already.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 06:03 AM   #29
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

Here is a strange observation. Went to a company meeting last week with a bunch of "Tim Allen type" field service engineers and Tech's mixed in with a bunch of geeky Phd application scientists. Not hard to guess who the skinny group was. Interesting to note that the "sales guys" present were inbetween the two extremes. Go figure.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 07:38 AM   #30
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

How to lose weight?

Funny I was watching something last week and someone asked how do you stay so thin don't you eat ? response.. Rarely!!

Are you hungry she was asked, Answer Yes.. Ok I will take you and get you a club soda!!

Now just go and finish your 10 mile workout!! 8)
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-10-2007, 08:23 AM   #31
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

As I have been modifying my diet, I am amazed at how much I used to eat.

Also, I have started buying local meat; it still has some corn in it, but at least no hormones or pre-emptive antibiotics.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-17-2007, 05:00 PM   #32
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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Originally Posted by LKH
we have more problem with obesity in the US than other nations, where they also sit around a lot, eat all the wrong foods, and presumably are genetically very similar.
What other countries are you referring to?
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-17-2007, 05:12 PM   #33
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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a bunch of "Tim Allen type" field service engineers and Tech's mixed in with a bunch of geeky Phd application scientists. Not hard to guess who the skinny group was.
Are you saying that the less-educated service engineers were ignorant about diet, and sat around watching NASCAR eating Cheetos and getting fat while the Geeks were aware of proper food nutrition, ate a healthy diet, and maintained a precise ideal weight?

Or are you saying that the action-oriented, backpacking, weight-lifting service engineers were more buff than the desk-bound, coca-cola drinking, introspective geeks?

I honestly can't guess which group would tend to be fatter.

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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-17-2007, 05:38 PM   #34
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

the article wasn't conclusive to me - seemed to jump from A + B = Q i think for the article to assert that it's just genetics - let's throw up our hands is not consistant with what is going on now in the states.

The overweight since childhood people had different metabolisms than people who were slimmer - surprise? no. my friends who have been pregnant who were overweight before - had a much harder time losing the baby weight than the people who were slimmer before - totally unfair but it is what it is.

Genetics? TAl points out the historical difference between say 30 years ago and now - we are all getting bigger. and our genes have not changed.

But food has - food is more modified, processed, colored, flavored, packaged and fried than ever. that is also a fact. and foods made for kids are worse. my sister is in WW and they tell you to shop the perimeter of the store because the whole inside is processed foods - ie bad for you - isn't that scary? add in time in front of tv/video games etc...

Genetically - our bodies are made to retain fat because cave people didn't always know where their next meal came from and the Ingalls family worked a lot harder than most people these days - yet food is more abundant and bad for you.

The more kids get overweight - earlier in their lives - the less likely they are to exercise, have interest or ability in exercise and then their metabolisms are shot - for the long term. get them healthy and fit early on and they have a better shot. My niece is very overweight for her age (i think 60 pounds at age 3) and she has not been able to develop muscle tone, had she been able to run/play like other kids her age - so she can barely carry her own weight. her parents both had weight issues - but she also is fed a terrible diet - so it's not one w/out the other methinks.

another note on the family genetics - my family - my parents very slim, from asia where obesity is not common - my two sisters have had weight issues since their teens and we ate a lot of processed foods (working parents, tv dinners...) so they don't fit the formula either. i didn't - even though i ate the same bad foods - i was more a picky eater and perhaps my genes are slightly different than my sister's - and they are also more emotional eaters than i am - is that genetic? maybe.

also, other countries that have allowed american processed foods into their doors have also had to loosen their belts - so let's look at the obvious too...





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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-17-2007, 06:14 PM   #35
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

I think it's a combination of genetics and diet/exercise/eating habits. My dad has struggled with weight issues on and off his whole life. When he really puts his mind to it, he can lose 20 or 30 pounds just like that. As soon as he gets it off, he starts snacking again, and he puts it all back on. He's a grazer. He is constantly in the fridge, eating little bits here and there. If's there's chips in the cupboard or peanuts, he's snacking on them. He also eats really fast - never takes his time. He tries so hard to lose the weight, but it's always a struggle, and he feels like he's starving whenever he's on a diet.

I am one of those naturally thin people. My mom is skinny too, and so are my sisters. As a little kid, I was so skinny and lanky, it embarrassed me. I used to pull my socks up to my knees thinking it would make me look like I had a little meat on my bones, when it really made me look even skinnier! Now that I am older, I guess you could say I look "normal", and if I gain a few pounds, I really don't have too much trouble getting rid of them within a few days....just cut back on the fatty foods, go for a few hikes, do some yard work, drink a few less beers and wahlah - gone.

I don't think you can blame it all on genetics, but there's no doubt in my mind that genetics play a huge role.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-17-2007, 09:41 PM   #36
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

That would be "voilą - gone", right?

P.S. I love dogs, too!
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-18-2007, 12:36 PM   #37
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

Never was very good at French
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-18-2007, 01:56 PM   #38
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

We pronounce it "Vy-o-luh" here in Texas...
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-20-2007, 07:07 AM   #39
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

It's simply a matter of energy (caloric) input versus energy expended. You take in more calories than you burn, and it is stored as fat.

There were no fat people in Auschwitz.
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)
Old 05-20-2007, 07:14 AM   #40
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Re: NYT article on fat/diet/obesity (it's genetic and that's that)

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It's simply a matter of energy (caloric) input versus energy expended. You take in more calories than you burn, and it is stored as fat.

There were no fat people in Auschwitz.
Oh man are you on point there.


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