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Old 05-29-2007, 12:50 PM   #21
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So now you're trying to convince people that Obama's plan will cause everyone to have a $10,000 tax bill, possibly have to sell their home and might as well suffocate their parents since they will be in so much misery and pain for years waiting for a hip just like all the poor Canadians.
Depending on what is covered and how much, the real cost could be close to $10,000 per household. Granted, much of that would not come from direct premium payments (most likely), but that could still be the cost. Put another way, the sum of taxes plus premiums could easily approach $10,000 per family per year for comprehensive, low-deductible health plans.

If there are options to self-insure the small stuff with larger deductibles and copays, then it wouldn't need to be $10K per year. But yes, the "Cadillac" plans many employers have DO cost in the vicinity of $10,000 per year. That's not FUD, that's fact. The real question here would be: is the "required" coverage going to be as comprehensive as most employer plans? If so, $10,000 per family is NOT a stretch -- at least in terms of total costs.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 05-29-2007, 12:56 PM   #22
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So now you're trying to convince people that Obama's plan will cause everyone to have a $10,000 tax bill, possibly have to sell their home and might as well suffocate their parents since they will be in so much misery and pain for years waiting for a hip just like all the poor Canadians.

Can't bring up a thread mentioning any kind of alternative health care options around here without getting the threads dragged down by the same old tired scare tactics and mis-information.

Might as well lock this one up mods.
Not scare tactics, but a realistic possibility, and no, I don't think it will happen to everyone...but only the middle class and wealthier Americans. If you dig into the history of Canada's universalized system, you'll find that within 4 years of implementation, income taxes went up something like 40% after implementation.. something to think about.... (I'd have to go back and get the exact figures...if anyone is interested.)


Go ahead and lock the thread.....censorship is a typical solution from left-wingers who want to shut up anyone who has a different opinion or concern that they want to put out to the public.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:09 PM   #23
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SPENDING SOMEONE ELSES MONEY! It's interesting that any of our LBYM crowd would advocate turning over more of our tax dollars over to the drunken sailors lawmakers in congress. They are a mirror of our society .... in it's worse incarnation. SPEND SPEND SPEND... and don't worry about where it's coming from ('after all it's NOT OUR MONEY').

If they (congress) had shown a history of wise spending I would feel different. However, when they tack pork barrel bills onto needed legislation so they can get a bridge to no where built in their district. I have to think twice about letting these idiots esteemed legistators vote us into another PAY NOW and PAY LATER scheme ... so they can get re-elected and line their cronies pockets.

I am all for providing needed services for society. But it has to be built on priorities and affordability. PLEASE DON'T take that attitude that
' it's going to be PAID FOR BY THE GOVERNMENT' ... we have to quit being the ATM for these guys in Washington.

end of rant. ... steps off soapbox
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:11 PM   #24
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I would like to see a Deming or Taguchi type examination or even a dynamic symulation model conducted by those who have no dog in the fight:

Say some computer literate retired Singaphore civil servants.

heh heh heh - 'The Red Bead Experiment' updated to the computer age. BTY - the slosh model said at Cat. 3 or higher the levee's would break. Then came Katrina. My emotions pick stocks/sometimes asset classes - but my retirement rides with Vanguard's computer rebalancing Target Retirement - hint, hint, hint .
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:19 PM   #25
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I want everyone to have coverage just as much as you, but Obama is promising the world here...a good way to get lots of votes, but where is the money going to come from?
The same place the money came from for the war in Iraq!
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:27 PM   #26
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. . .
Besides Obama passes my two fundamental criteria - he's breathing and a Democrat. . .
After 6 and a half years with these bozos, I've lowered my standards. My fundamental criteria -- breathing and not a Republican. I'm even willing to compromise on the breathing part.
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Old 05-29-2007, 05:01 PM   #27
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Wow, does your insurance help cover the cost of illegally harvesting organs from somewhere if you need one? Because in Florida if you need an organ they DO place you on a waiting list to receive one.
I bet they only place you on the list if you can afford to pay for the operation. That's the way they do it around here.

Mike D.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:48 PM   #28
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I bet they only place you on the list if you can afford to pay for the operation. That's the way they do it around here.

Mike D.
In Colorado, if they exclude a pre-existing condition, you just get the standard (not preferred) rate, instead of being uprated. The quoted rates typically are based on best case scenario as it is, so they are not going to discount your rates if they exclude something, instead they are just going to exclude rather than uprate. On the other hand, some carriers will uprate instead of exclude.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:03 PM   #29
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After 6 and a half years with these bozos, I've lowered my standards. My fundamental criteria -- breathing and not a Republican. I'm even willing to compromise on the breathing part.
I'm to the point where I want a Republican back in the White House, one with the conservative values that I think of when I think "Republican." George W. Bush, IMHO, no more represents the Republican mainstream than Oprah Winfrey represents it.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:07 PM   #30
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I'm to the point where I want a Republican back in the White House, one with the conservative values that I think of when I think "Republican." George W. Bush, IMHO, no more represents the Republican mainstream than Oprah Winfrey represents it.
Name a current GOP candidate that you like.

Also, if you don't like the "borrow and spend" aspects of G.W. Bush, remember that he learned that one from Ronald Reagan.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:10 PM   #31
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Name a current GOP candidate that you like.
So far, out of all of them, I lean towards Juliani.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:26 PM   #32
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In Colorado, if they exclude a pre-existing condition, you just get the standard (not preferred) rate, instead of being uprated. The quoted rates typically are based on best case scenario as it is, so they are not going to discount your rates if they exclude something, instead they are just going to exclude rather than uprate. On the other hand, some carriers will uprate instead of exclude.
oops - I put this post in the wrong thread! Sorry about that.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:28 PM   #33
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Name a current GOP candidate that you like.

Also, if you don't like the "borrow and spend" aspects of G.W. Bush, remember that he learned that one from Ronald Reagan.
I like SOME things aboutGiuliani but I'm not convinced that he is much of a conservative. I'm trying to get to know more about Mitt Romney because he's said some things that interest me. At this point, I can't stomach John McCain...used to like Ron Paul because I tend to think Libertarian at times but he's sort of gone off the deep end here lately.

Really I'm hoping for a candidate from any party with whom I can feel really comfortable. Lately I've had to settle for the closest thing I could find to my ideal candidate, and that hasn't been very close, so I'm hoping for the best.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:00 PM   #34
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We already foot the bill. Poor people DO get health care - just in the most expensive way. And I'd like to think that every American would not have to worry that his/her child might die because they can't afford medical care.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:37 PM   #35
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We already foot the bill. Poor people DO get health care - just in the most expensive way. And I'd like to think that every American would not have to worry that his/her child might die because they can't afford medical care.

That was my point. Theres no care for uninsured people until they're very sick or injured, then we all foot the emergency room bills. In between, we pay billions in overhead and bureaucracy.

In the meanwhile, i'm unaware of any country who has implemented universal health care that has seen a huge tax jump, sudden increases in firings/unemployment, or people with needed procedures being made to wait significantly longer periods of time.

All the rest of this is BS, smoke and hoo-hah.

Now dont go and make me put some random food item on some poor animals head...
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:43 PM   #36
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:49 PM   #37
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Oh dear, thats a sad looking banana...and a very depressed looking dog.

But then, if my beloved owner put an old icky banana on my head and then took a picture and then broadcast it to untold millions...I'd be depressed too.
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:53 PM   #38
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And oh, what the hell...

If pressed, next comes John Galt with a beard, mustache and horns drawn on his face, and a huge pile of blintzes on his head.

Or maybe SG with a burrito...
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:06 PM   #39
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:06 PM   #40
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