Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-26-2013, 10:19 AM   #341
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper View Post
How long before the subsidies get taxed.
Here's a question: If you expect to have low income in 2014 but high income in 2012 (guilty as charged), and you pay "full price" for HI in 2014 and you itemize the cost of HI above 10% of AGI, will the subsidy you get as a tax credit off your 2014 return itself be taxable, since you wrote off much of what you paid? The mind boggles.
__________________

__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-26-2013, 10:35 AM   #342
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
the second is the general high cost of healthcare in general in the US, as compared to other western nations.
And that would definitely make a great topic for a discussion thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Here's a question: If you expect to have low income in 2014 but high income in 2012 (guilty as charged), and you pay "full price" for HI in 2014 and you itemize the cost of HI above 10% of AGI, will the subsidy you get as a tax credit off your 2014 return itself be taxable, since you wrote off much of what you paid? The mind boggles.
Interesting. I sure hope that they thought of that scenario.
__________________

__________________
bUU is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:58 AM   #343
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Interesting. I sure hope that they thought of that scenario.
It *seems* to me the logical thing to do would be to take a tax credit *instead* of a Schedule A deduction on your 2014 tax return, but we're talking about the IRS so you never know.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #344
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fishers
Posts: 386
Ziggy29 - right you are - credits are so much better than deductions!
__________________
wmc1000 is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 PM   #345
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Also not trying to bring bacon, and keeping this completely factual, based on the actual wording of the law... ACA is supposed to solve the problem of lack of affordability of health coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, with conditions that otherwise would exceed a lifetime cap, etc., as well as with regard to the working poor, in general. Not for everyone.

And it definitely does those things.

If the objective was to lower health care costs overall, then there was a completely different approach available. That just simply wasn't the objective that we decided to pursue as a nation.
OK, but there is no reason for them to be mutually exclusive.

For the most part, the people w/o coverage (for whatever reason) were getting treated. It might have bankrupted them, or they might have been subsidized one way or the other. But it is still a 'cost' in terms of 'total health care cost' for the nation. So from a total cost POV, covering these people probably won't add much to overall health care spending, if done reasonably efficiently - it could lower costs in some cases if preventative measures or early treatment help.

I just feel there should have been more done for controlling overall costs - there are lots of opportunities that have been discussed in previous threads.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 04-26-2013, 01:00 PM   #346
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bUU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,914
Would-a been nice.
__________________
bUU is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 01:13 PM   #347
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,423
First of all, Brooks is not liberal. Not as conservative as others in his party but he's far from liberal.

Second, they passed what they were able to pass. If they didn't pass even these tepid changes to the the health care system, there would be no chance of more serious reforms.

If they tried to attack the cost issue, like maybe leveling the pharmaceutical pricing structure in this country, or being more strict about non-profit hospitals or change the payment system (compensating providers based on results, instead of procedures performed, regardless of the results), the political opposition would have been far greater.

It's not as if the ACA could have been swept aside and Congress would have voted for a better reform law. If it failed to pass, then we likely would not have had another attempt at reform for at least another decade, with things getting worse.
__________________
explanade is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:37 PM   #348
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Here's a question: If you expect to have low income in 2014 but high income in 2012 (guilty as charged), and you pay "full price" for HI in 2014 and you itemize the cost of HI above 10% of AGI, will the subsidy you get as a tax credit off your 2014 return itself be taxable, since you wrote off much of what you paid? The mind boggles.
I would think that they would require that the deduction for health insurance premiums on Schedule A be reduced by any subsidies being claimed on that return (and the subsidy would be known since it is based on O-MAGI and premiums paid and could be calculated before the deductible premiums are calculated). IOW, it'll probably be built into TurboTax.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is online now  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #349
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
It *seems* to me the logical thing to do would be to take a tax credit *instead* of a Schedule A deduction on your 2014 tax return, but we're talking about the IRS so you never know.
The tax credit should always be greater than the reduced tax from using the deduction. When the net is in your favor it seems like a pretty straightforward process to get it, just net it when filing. The issue I see is when the real income is higher so the subsidy earned is less than the one given upfront.

The Brooks OpEd is a laundry list of potential and real issues and problems. He can do better than that, and should. The lack of cost reduction is a red herring, because that never has been part of the this initiative.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #350
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
They probably won't ever be.
Unless they are.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:17 PM   #351
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
The lack of cost reduction is a red herring, because that never has been part of the this initiative.
Although cost control and reduction was an important talking point in selling the initiative.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:22 PM   #352
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Although cost control and reduction was an important talking point in selling the initiative.
While implementation of the PPACA may lead to cost control, I don't recall it being part of the discussion. Cost reduction was never part of the proposed or approved legislation, or part of the process, AFAIK.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:27 PM   #353
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
While implementation of the PPACA may lead to cost control, I don't recall it being part of the discussion. Cost reduction was never part of the proposed or approved legislation, or part of the process, AFAIK.
It was part of the discussion, an important selling point. If nothing else, the fact that our health care cost per person was high while our outcome effectivity was not, was repeated again and again calling for change and the establishment of a "reformed" system.

I'm not against Obamacare. I just think it's been over promised, especially on cost control.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:34 PM   #354
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
It was part of the discussion, an important selling point. If nothing else, the fact that our health care cost per person was high while our outcome effectivity was not, was repeated again and again calling for change and the establishment of a "reformed" system.

I'm not against Obamacare. I just think it's been over promised, especially on cost control.
Do you have a source? I am familiar with election campaign rhetoric about health care costs but not the legislation. My recollection is very much a discussion about breadth and reach of coverage, insurance options, and the mandate.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:52 PM   #355
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Exactly.

Health care cost reduction was an important part of campaign rhetoric. Then legislation was proposed and passed which will likely not be effective in bringing about cost reductions.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #356
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Exactly.

Health care reduction was an important part of campaign rhetoric. Then legislation was proposed which will likely not be effective in bringing about cost reductions.
That is exactly the interpretation I have perceived during the process.
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:58 PM   #357
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,470
Let's acknowledge that agreement (it's not often) and get the conversation back to the PPACA. Implementation issues, coverage, roll out, etc.

ETA: If it wasn't clear, let's keep election rhetoric out of the thread.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #358
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Let's acknowledge that agreement (it's not often) and get the conversation back to the PPACA. Implementation issues, coverage, roll out, etc.

ETA: If it wasn't clear, let's keep election rhetoric out of the thread.
OK, I'm glad you agree. And I have no problem not discussing election rhetoric. I only mentioned it since you pushed for a source.

But, the cost vs effectiveness of health care in the USA and the need for reform and improvement has been discussed extensively here on the ER forum. Are you suggesting that will no longer be allowed? Or, are you just saying not on this thread which should be focused only on the existing Obamacare program staus quo?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #359
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
OK, I'm glad you agree. And I have no problem not discussing election rhetoric. I only mentioned it since you pushed for a source.

But, the cost vs effectiveness of health care in the USA and the need for reform and improvement has been discussed extensively here on the ER forum. Are you suggesting that will no longer be allowed? Or, are you just saying not on this thread which should be focused only on the existing Obamacare program staus quo?
If you want to talk healthcare reform please do so, in a separate thread. All I'm trying to do is keep this thread on topic.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 04-26-2013, 05:23 PM   #360
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Exactly.

Health care cost reduction was an important part of campaign rhetoric. Then legislation was proposed and passed which will likely not be effective in bringing about cost reductions.
Wasn't the single payer option, which was dropped prior to passage of the ACA, supposed to force rates for services down, as it does for Medicare?
__________________

__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.