One's cancer could just be bad luck

[harley]

I had a fried who is a dietitian and she thinks it's ok to drink Diet Coke. Not over my dead body. The stuff that makes it diet is the real killer, not the calories.

That's what they call an opinion, not a fact. First, which sweetener are you talking about? Sucralose? Aspartame? Saccharine? Then, following up a statement like that with some links to science would be helpful. Personally, I've never heard of a single person who's death could be attributed to an artificial sweetener. I've heard of many, many people who's deaths are at least largely attributable to sugar, HFCS, processed grains, etc. I know that saccharine was once thought to contribute to bladder cancer in lab rats, but not being a lab rat I wasn't too concerned. I just don't like the taste of it.

But according to the National Cancer Institute and other health agencies, there's no sound scientific evidence that any of the artificial sweeteners approved for use in the U.S. cause cancer or other serious health problems. And numerous research studies confirm that artificial sweeteners are generally safe in limited quantities, even for pregnant women. As a result of the newer studies, the warning label for saccharin was dropped.

That's from Artificial sweeteners and other sugar substitutes - Mayo Clinic.

I'd have to say I'd go with your nutritionist friend on this one.

 

[NW-Bound]

One big benefit of a healthy lifestyle that is often overlooked is that if and when a disease strikes randomly, it's less likely to spell doom for a healthy person than for an unhealthy one, because the healthy person has more strength to fight it and, due to starting from a higher point healthwise, can decline a lot more than an unhealthy person and still avoid the grim reaper.

+1000

Many cancer types are treatable if detected early enough. A healthy person facing cancer can go through surgery, chemo, and radiation a lot better than a frail person.

 

[Fedup]

That's what they call an opinion, not a fact. First, which sweetener are you talking about? Sucralose? Aspartame? Saccharine? Then, following up a statement like that with some links to science would be helpful. Personally, I've never heard of a single person who's death could be attributed to an artificial sweetener. I've heard of many, many people who's deaths are at least largely attributable to sugar, HFCS, processed grains, etc. I know that saccharine was once thought to contribute to bladder cancer in lab rats, but not being a lab rat I wasn't too concerned. I just don't like the taste of it.

That's from Artificial sweeteners and other sugar substitutes - Mayo Clinic.

I'd have to say I'd go with your nutritionist friend on this one.

I never said it cause dead, I said I would only drink it when I'm dead. Hence the comment over my dead body. I still don't think anything artificial is healthy. I don't drink any sugared water, no coke, no Diet Coke, nothing. I meant just because it says Diet doesn't mean it's healthy for lack of sugar.

 

[Amethyst]

Moderators! How could you allow Satan to post under Walt34's handle?

Here ya go:

https://www.amazon.com/Bloomer-poun...6&sr=1-1&keywords=10+pound+chocolate+bar&th=1

It's a ten pound chocolate bar. I did once eat a five pound Hershey's chocolate bar but it took a lot longer than a week. More like a month. And DW helped a little.

 

[Amethyst]

I think Haha said it best - something like "By doing the 'right' things, you add more white balls to your bucket, trying to dilute the black balls [bad events], but you can't eliminate the black balls."

 

[Lsbcal]

Moderators! How could you allow Satan to post under Walt34's handle?

LOL!!!

 

[Lsbcal]

...
That's from Artificial sweeteners and other sugar substitutes - Mayo Clinic.

I'd have to say I'd go with your nutritionist friend on this one.

This is injecting far too much logic into the sweetener discussion.

I think of sugar and Diet Cokes as my friends.

 

[Walt34]

I think of sugar and Diet Cokes as my friends.

Absolutely. As one nurse explained it to me the four main food groups are sugar, salt, fat, and alcohol. With nicotine for dessert.

 

[FI by 2024]

I keep telling my kids vegetarian diet is not always healthy. We need fat for the brain.

Vegetarian doesn't mean low fat. Nuts and avocados are staples of vegetarian and vegan diets. Lacto-ovos also get dairy and eggs. All either are or can be high in fat...the good kind of fat, too, not the kind you get from animal skin.

If you know people who are eating a vegetarian diet and are also low fat, tell them they are doing it wrong. It's very difficult to get proper nutrition on such a diet. But vegetarian diets in and of themselves are not unhealthy.

 

[Fedup]

Vegetarian doesn't mean low fat. Nuts and avocados are staples of vegetarian and vegan diets. Lacto-ovos also get dairy and eggs. All either are or can be high in fat...the good kind of fat, too, not the kind you get from animal skin.

If you know people who are eating a vegetarian diet and are also low fat, tell them they are doing it wrong. It's very difficult to get proper nutrition on such a diet. But vegetarian diets in and of themselves are not unhealthy.

Unfortunately the kids don't always eat a balanced vegetarian diet. Even my brother's wife family is all into vegetarian diet. But I don't think they eat enough of the vegetable fats. My SIL's dad died of something related to the brain. Maybe Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

 

[HadEnuff]

Honestly, I don't know why people think they can ward off all diseases by healthy living. Some, certainly, but all?

I guess we like to think we have more control over our health than we actually do.

I think this is a big part of it.

My mom never ate a particle of food without announcing which body part it would be good for. She died of ovarian cancer at 75. Her mom lived to be 93.

We like to think we have some control. We may have a bit, but not as much as we like to think we have.

 

[Fedup]

Ovarian cancer is a silence killer. I believe it helps if you have taken birth control, but I could be wrong.

 

[harley]

I never said it cause dead, I said I would only drink it when I'm dead. Hence the comment over my dead body. I still don't think anything artificial is healthy. I don't drink any sugared water, no coke, no Diet Coke, nothing. I meant just because it says Diet doesn't mean it's healthy for lack of sugar.

I guess I misinterpreted this part of your statement -

The stuff that makes it diet is the real killer, not the calories.

Of course having it say Diet doesn't mean it's healthy. As a matter of fact, I've found that the supposedly healthy advertising on most foods means almost the opposite. Low fat tends to mean high sugar, gluten free doesn't imply healthy even for the gluten intolerant, etc. One of my favorites was seeing a box of some candy, I think it was Ike and Mikes ,with the advertisement "Fat Free" on it. But in my opinion (which is worth what it costs), diet sodas are so much healthier than sugary sodas or fruit juices or sweet tea or whatever that it's not funny.

 

[Fedup]

I guess I misinterpreted this part of your statement - Of course having it say Diet doesn't mean it's healthy. As a matter of fact, I've found that the supposedly healthy advertising on most foods means almost the opposite. Low fat tends to mean high sugar, gluten free doesn't imply healthy even for the gluten intolerant, etc. One of my favorites was seeing a box of some candy, I think it was Ike and Mikes ,with the advertisement "Fat Free" on it. But in my opinion (which is worth what it costs), diet sodas are so much healthier than sugary sodas or fruit juices or sweet tea or whatever that it's not funny.

I see, i meant killer as in bad for you, not as it kills you. But I always thought aspartame, and other artificial stuff sweeteners are not healthy for you. I might as well take sugar with my coffee if I want sugar. I didn't realize from the Mayo link that people with diabetes have to watch out for real sugar. I also think agave is not good syrup. I used to buy them but then I stopped after reading something online about how it's made.

I also only drink lemon water, I think that's the best. No fruit juices, no sweet teas.

 

[nash031]

In my studies on the effects of radiation, and radiological controls for nuclear engineering, I learned that cancer is precisely that: "random" or "stochastic".

Certainly there are things that increase your risk of getting cancer, but there are no sure-fire "you will get cancer if you do XXXX" or "you won't get cancer if you don't do YYYY". It just doesn't work that way.

Of course, I tried explaining to my dad that my sister's cancer was not his fault because he also battle cancer, but that's much easier said than believed. I'm pretty sure he died thinking it was somehow his fault.

 

[MRG]

I've been spoiled. My kid just brought back some delicious dark chocolate from Switzerland. I won't go for Hershey's for a while. I do love Hershey's though.

We used to send Hershey's to some of our international offices as a joke. They'd expressed their appreciation it as a fine chocolate.

I still like it; I grew up a ways from there. I actually fell for the DW when we were still kids(17) at Hershey Park.

 

[Lisa99]

I had an uncle-in-law who drank a 5th of Jack Daniels BEFORE noon every single day shortly after returning from WW2. He essentially drank alcohol all day, all night, all the time. He went blind at about 80 and died in his sleep at 87.

His dad was also an alcoholic who drank as much as he did. His dad died at 102.

I've been doing our genealogy and even back in the late 1700s my dad's side of the family had very long lives. Once ancestor died in his 90s in the early 1800s.

Makes for some interesting research. Hope it conveys to me!

 

[Clone]

I live with a form of C. When first diagnosed, I found that I had a 15% chance of living more than 6 years. That was 8 years ago. The 15% number was the old survival rate. The new number is much better, to the point that for most people it is a maintenance issue of taking a pill every day to keep the death away. And, that pill is $400. Please don't lecture me about using my HSA to pay that high deductible in January.

I frequent a discussion board about the disease. There are plenty of people who must blame the disease on something. There is no identified cause. It is rare, it just happens. Now, the alarm is going off in some studies because there are more people with this disease every year! Something must be causing it! (Uh, maybe because people with the disease are surviving?)

Typical suspects- chemicals, ag pesticides or herbicides, preservatives in food, benzene from industry or from filling the tank on your car with gasoline, dust from the World Trade towers, a mother's curse because of an unwanted pregnancy, immunizations, travel to foreign countries, insects, fried foods, diet soft drinks, air conditioning, the list continues to grow. Many people can not accept the concept that it was a random occurrence, as far as we know, and just be grateful that there is a medicine that allows you to live. It is not easy, there are side effects, it is expensive. But it is not anything like dealing with many other types of cancer.

 

[Moemg]

People just want something to prove to them that they will not get the disease . I have COPD and did not smoke but people continue to question me about how long did I smoke .My pulmonary doctor has a great chart in his office which shows how many people just get COPD with no smoking and how many heavy smokers never get COPD .As we age we will all be dealing with some medical problems it is just life .

 

[brett]

No idea.

But when we see so many obese people, especially young people, so much processed food in the grocery stores, and so many fast food stores on our street we wonder about overall health.

It can only lead to two things. Increased health/long term care costs and reduced lifespan. The former is happening, the latter may take time to show up on the stats.

 

[6miths]

Agree that much of cancer is bad luck. Bad luck in the genetic hand one is dealt in terms of number of critical mutations that already exist and one's ability to deal with new mutations in positive or negative ways. And then the randomness of where the many mutagens we are exposed to work their magic. My impression of much of the belief that we have any impact on things like cancer comes from religious-like thinking. That said, one can certainly increase the chance of bad outcomes by taking up certain habits. Smoking is a great example and the major bad outcome is actually various vascular diseases rather than cancer.

 

[simple girl]

People just want something to prove to them that they will not get the disease.

Exactly. When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, soooooooo many people asked me if it ran in my family. (I had the BRCA test, negative.)

It scares the crap out of people to see someone young and healthy like me get diagnosed. They want to reassure themselves that it probably won't happen to them.

It's the unluck of the draw in life...and that's not something others want to hear, as most want to live a long long life and have control over their destiny.

 

[mistershankly]

There is a great TED talk by Dr. Peter Attia who once cared for (and judged) patients with seemingly self-induced diseases like diabetes. His life experience transformed his perspective on the causes as well as the presumptions surrounding the causes. It's a great talk to watch...

https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes

 

[harley]

It can only lead to two things. Increased health/long term care costs and reduced lifespan. The former is happening, the latter may take time to show up on the stats.

Cognitive dissonance again. Reduced life spans lead to decreased health care costs. Long lives increase health care costs. I know it's not the "common knowledge", but it is what the studies show.

Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...-cost-health-care-systems-money/#5b094f0f64aa

 

[audreyh1]

Exactly. When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, soooooooo many people asked me if it ran in my family. (I had the BRCA test, negative.)

It scares the crap out of people to see someone young and healthy like me get diagnosed. They want to reassure themselves that it probably won't happen to them.

It's the unluck of the draw in life...and that's not something others want to hear, as most want to live a long long life and have control over their destiny.

I see a lot of that around here, in my 55+ community. People want disease to be "logical" somehow. A lovely lady down the street started having what appeared to be strokes. This is was very active lady for her age, quite slender, attending Zumba religiously, probably the fittest lady in her age group here by far (late 60s/early 70s). People kept going on and on about - "Wow, she's in such great shape and so active. How could this happen to her!?!".

Unfortunately, it turned out she had a brain tumor. Just took a long time to find it. It's not going well.....

Still - it seems somehow people thought she would be immune. I guess that's really some level of wishful thinking?

It's hard for me to understand that thinking. Probably because I lost my mother to cancer when I was 35, and she and father were just reaching retirement! My mother's cancer was not one linked to any lifestyle choices. It just happens and it can happen to anyone. No one is immune.