Going out on a limb, my prediction is this debate will not be resolved here.
But is it really about 'solving/resolving' anything?
We have debates about taking SS early or not, for example. It can't really be 'solved/resolved' unless we know our date of demise, future rates of returns, etc. But discussing
the factors that affect the decision can be very, very enlightening.
I think that is all I'm looking for from this discussion. What are the pros/cons of 'organic'? I hope to learn something. I'm a skeptic by nature, I'm skeptical that organic is generally advantageous, just as I'm skeptical that commercial farming is safe. I look to data and education for guidance.
Two of these inputs, hormones and antibiotics, have already found their way into humans, causing negative health effects.
Can you provide some links to credible sources? I've heard concerns about these, but I'm not aware of specific problems.
My guess is some synthetic ingredients and processes can be used safely, but we have no way to identify producers that use or follow then, and the incentive is to maximize productivity and disregard the consequence. A certification of organic does not eliminate those concerns but it does address and reduce them.
... I prefer to see my children and their families choosing these options, am happy to contribute if need be, and am grateful to be able to make the choice.
Well, I think this is debatable. I was a bit surprised about the debate over the safety (in the link NW_Bound provided), and the amounts of pesticides used by 'organic' farmers. Just because the source is 'natural' doesn't make it safe - certainly poisonous mushrooms and botulism are 'natural'.
To put it another way - are the methods used to determine that 'organic' is safe any different from those used to determine that commercial pesticides are safe? I've read that aspirin would not pass FDA tests today.
And according to that earlier article, Rotenone is used at higher levels than other pesticides - is it safe, or more dangerous as you might ingest more of it? And then there is e. coli and salmonella, which have been reported to be higher in organic produce. I react stronger to known, reported issues than hypotheticals.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the environmental impacts of pesticides.
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2. Environmental impacts. Pesticides have a substantial impact on the environment to which they are applied. All farming has a substantial impact, but we'd like to lessen it if we can.
I did mention it, post #30. Often, organic results in a negative environmental impact.
3. Social and occupational health issues. I was a certified pest control operator for a few years as part of my job working for the county. The risks of pesticide exposure to farmworkers and others are real, and the risks to their families are higher and real as well. Growers who use fewer pesticides ask their workers to take fewer risks in this area. We support that, as we support all safer labor practices.
Links please. Last time I looked into this, I found very little evidence of problems among the farm workers, the ones with the greatest exposure.
4. We want to support the market. Because organic / pesticide-free growing practices are something we think is a good idea, we buy those foods so that a market for them exists. We believe in capitalism, and if we want the supply to expand, we have to expand the demand as well.
This is why I want as many people as possible to understand the pros/cons. I think there is a general feeling that organic is better, and this is reducing my choices for cheaper commercial produce. The market is eager to provide 'organic' if it can charge more. I'm also concerned that possible unwarranted fears of GMO and 'irradiated' will eliminate those choices for me.
I don't take sides, and I certainly don't speak for others here. But, I think part of the reason people don't have or value a 'scientific' reason is mistrust of the political and economic establishment that the science information is often filtered through. For example, like many of us I spent decades staying away from butter, eggs, cheese, red meats, and eating high-transfat margarine. ....
That said, I try very hard to be objective as possible. In other words: Trust but verify.
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I hear what you are saying, but my skepticism is what kept me from dropping butter, eggs, and fats from my diet. I'm afraid 'organic' is just the next 'fad', backed by pseudo-science and marketing.
A dear, departed Aunt of mine was into a lot of this. I recall once she had some sort of alternative chocolate made from Carob, and thought it was much healthier than chocolate. I wondered, what made her think chocolate (in moderation) is bad? And why would Carob be better? Carob is a bean, cocoa is a bean. I don't get it.
-ERD50
