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Old 02-03-2008, 04:03 PM   #21
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If I might, the United States has, per capita, the most expensive health care "system" in the world, yet we lag well behind countries spending a fraction as much in every imaginable way. Infant mortality: higher. Life expentancy: lower....

Those statistics are misleading. For a closer look:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/business/04view.html
Thanks for the link. What is interesting is that the author disputes what we think some of the statistics mean, but then gives a misleading explanation. I won't go through each issue in the article because I don't have my resources on health insurance in front of me. However, his claim that a large percentage of the uninsured declined employer insurance is misleading. Some employers offer insurance at rates employees cannot afford. Some employers offer subsidized insurance only to full time employees with part timers having to pay 100% of the cost, which most often is not affordable. He is being misleading by saying that the upper income people, those making more than $50,000, are growing in the ranks of uninsured. True, but he fails to mention that it is families with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000. He also fails to mention that a large number of small businesses are dropping insurance and the difficulty employees are having buying insurance on the open market. He makes everything sound too simple, when it is complicated and messy.

I would like to see his source on the medicaid numbers because more and more people are being dropped from medicaid as the program budget gets tightened. And, you must be not only poor but disabled, elderly or in some cases, with young children, to get medicaid.

His conclusions about cost are almost silly. He, as lawyers say, assumes facts not in evidence. He assumes that outcomes are better because we spend more. When in fact, things are much more complicated than that. He also fails to mention that our country spends more on administrative layers in the health care sector that any other industrialized country.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:41 PM   #22
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In other words, he had some info, he had a desired conclusion, and just figured out how to spackle the area in the middle to accomodate.
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:25 AM   #23
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In other words, he had some info, he had a desired conclusion, and just figured out how to spackle the area in the middle to accomodate.
Yea, that's pretty obvious in statements like this:

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The rate of teenage motherhood, according to the O’Neill study, is almost three times higher in the United States than it is in Canada.
The facts are that Canadian teens become sexually active in almost lock-step with their American counterparts; the difference between Canadian and American teens is that they are much more likely to use contraceptives and condoms than their American peers are. In Canada, you see, teens have better access to healthcare, including access to contraceptives, and more compete sex education . . . a health care issue that doctors can chime in on during checkups to make sure teens have the information they need to "play safe" once they become active.

Mr Mankiw fails to mention these details in his argument, but there's a lot he leaves out of his discussion, like how it is that he concludes that the 47 million Americans without insurance figure, a US Census statistic, is vastly inflated. Certainly he offers no documentation or sources to back his claims up.

Sometimes it isn't the information he presents, but the information he leaves out that makes his claims so misleading. His third and last item of debate, that current US healthcare costs are just 16 percent of the gross national income, is accurate, but he neglects to mention that the 2005 average household bill for health insurance was about $11,000 (USA Today, September 14, 2005). That's 23% of the 2005 median household income of $43,000 (Wikipedia), and that $11,000 does not include other healthcare costs like copays and other uninsured costs.

Yes, there's a lot Mr. Mankiw has to say about the good health of US health care. It is sad that his analysis, like statements made by so many other Bush policy wonks (read his byline at the end of the editorial), should perhaps be better known by the documented findings he doesn't bother to mention than the "facts" he tries to create.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:40 AM   #24
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The facts are that Canadian teens become sexually active in almost lock-step with their American counterparts; the difference between Canadian and American teens is that they are much more likely to use contraceptives and condoms than their American peers are. In Canada, you see, teens have better access to healthcare, including access to contraceptives, and more compete sex education.
Now all y'all better be careful! I have it on good authority from my government sources that telling kids about sex and providing contraception just encourages them!!! If you dont tell them anything, they wont do anything! And that contraception is no good. Besides encouraging even more evil and sinful premarital sex, it fails 99.285% of the time!!!
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:29 PM   #25
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Funny thing - since I made this post and mentioned that I was considering getting my own separate health insurance policy I got a flyer from Blue Cross in the mail advertising some new product aimed at people who want to retire early.

Makes you wonder who watches what goes on on your computer.

I wonder if they classify paranoia as a pre-existing condition
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:42 PM   #26
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Funny thing - since I made this post and mentioned that I was considering getting my own separate health insurance policy I got a flyer from Blue Cross in the mail advertising some new product aimed at people who want to retire early.
"When the student is ready, the Guru will appear." Isaya proverb
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:12 PM   #27
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Funny thing - since I made this post and mentioned that I was considering getting my own separate health insurance policy I got a flyer from Blue Cross in the mail advertising some new product aimed at people who want to retire early.

Makes you wonder who watches what goes on on your computer.
Something/somebody is watching. It is not just a coincidence that when I Google "plumber" advertisements for area plumbers magically appear in the "sponsored links" section of the page.

Back on topic, I firmly believe that the government intentionally makes it difficult to get individual health insurance between RE and 65 so that we will stay at work and contribute to the economy.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:19 PM   #28
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Back on topic, I firmly believe that the government intentionally makes it difficult to get individual health insurance between RE and 65 so that we will stay at work and contribute to the economy.
Interesting concept, but I don't buy it because it implies the government actually has some sort of a plan to slow down the loss of tax revenues
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