Peripheral Neuropathy & Chiropractors

[TrvlBug]

Am hoping to get some insight on what I'm afraid will become a problem in our lives. DH has had peripheral neuropathy in feet for decades. His neurologist's answer is live with it and yes, it's getting worse. He has been diagnosed somewhat recently with Type 2 diabetes, was able to control it for a few years with diet and exercise, but not now (because his diet is crap and he's not exercising regularly, not that the diabetes has gotten worse). We're trying to get on track with that and again eliminate the need for low dose Metformin.

A friend's parent has had luck with what they call his 'witch doctor' in treating his PN. DH is getting some info (guy lives across the country) and in the meantime, we attended a PN seminar at a local 'wellness center.' This wellness center is run by 2 chiropractors and the seminar focused on how they can cure anything...not in so many words, but you get my point. I think they're nothing but charletans, but DH is interested. We'll be going for an initial checkup in a week for only $97 each, what a deal from the normal $600 cost! The next step for DH will be a $3K exam...blood tests and the like. MRIs, x-rays if necessary will follow, paid by insurance of course.

I saw something in their hallway that I'm sure wasn't meant for public consumption. A very large empty org chart at the bottom of which was a definition of an ideal patient. Vxx patient is.... .... ..... a patient that stays, pays, and refers. I can't get past this.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Maybe any input on treating PN on chiropractors I do believe there are some good ones, however, don't believe they are capable of fixing my asthma or allergies!!!

Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Run in the opposite direction from this. Seriously.

 

[REWahoo]

Run in the opposite direction from this. Seriously.

^ What he said.

 

[Jerry1]

Run in the opposite direction from this. Seriously.

Agree.

Read the book Sugar Crush by Dr. Richard P. Jacoby

Step two, go to a wholistic dr, make sure it’s an MD or DO, in other words, an actual dr and have his heavy metals tested. I think that’s about a couple hundred, not $3K.

Bacically, it is something you have to live with, but having reduced my sugar and reducing the mercury in my body, I can at least now feel things in my feet. I live on a slab house (concrete floor), and I can now feel that the floor is cold. Several years ago, I couldn’t even feel that.

FWIW, I have a very good chiropractor and while I’m sure having my spine adjusted doesn’t hurt, it never impacted my neuropathy. I’ve also been to a neurologist and testing shows that there is no actual nerve damage. It’s a difficult issue to deal with and you are right to be skeptical.

Given his diabetes, I think he may find Sugar Crush a good book. If he doesn’t get his sugar under control, he’s in for a very rough rest of his life. Best wishes.

 

[MRG]

Run in the opposite direction from this. Seriously.

+1

I have cspine issues and was having serious problems. Some whack job "chiropractor" told me he'd "work around" my cspine and do manipulative therapy.

That's not how it works! Run away. That dude could have paralyzed me. These folks want your money.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Sounds like those chiropractors are selling fake health cures. The typical for all sorts of sales occasions is free seminar, then small charge, then reel them in with more payments needed to go further.

Unfortunately it sounds like your DH is doing very little to control his diabetes, which is too bad as it will destroy him a bit at time.

 

[eytonxav]

I've never been to chiropractor, but have heard many talk about these folks pushing blood tests and supplements that cost a small fortune.

 

[OldShooter]

Is there a duck emoticon somewhere? Quack. Quack.

 

[imoldernu]

I can't speak to chiropractor skills, and no medical knowledge, but I do have peripheral neuropathy in my hands... a nuisance, and becoming worse with age, but not seriously restrictive. Medicine for occasional pain, but livable. In my case, only danger is from burns (no feeling in hands) and the occasional cuts and bruises that only show up later.

That said, after reading this site, a clearer picture of the wide array of causes, symptoms, some help, and some more understanding is important.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/peripheral-neuropathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20352061

In the early days, about 7 years ago, a regular doctor diagnosed carpal tunnel, after asking if i used the computer a lot. After the operation, no change, and gradually both hands involved. With no obvious cause as diabetes or medicines, diagnosed a idiopathic polyneuropathy. The "poly" refers to hands and feet, or just both feet, or both hands.

The Mayo Clinic article describes the type of nerve damage that causes neuropathy, and the types of treatment... mostly diet/alcohol avoidance/ vitamin B, autoimmune diseases, and genes... but does not mention chiropractic treatment.

Two more sites to fill out the discussion:
https://www.foundationforpn.org/2016/04/11/5179/
and,
https://diabetesnewsjournal.com/2015/03/17/chiropractic-care-may-help-control-peripheral-neuropathy-in-diabetics/

 

[Teacher Terry]

I have went to chiropractors for years because of soft tissue damage from car accidents. Not one reputable chiropractor ever claimed they can cure other things. What you are talking about is a scam.

 

[Mdlerth]

When your only tool is a hammer, every problem is a nail

My own experience with chiro was an unimpressive one. Anybody else remember "Theodoric of York" ?

I know some very smart people, people who you'd think would be able to detect a scam quickly, who nonetheless regularly visit a chiropractor.

It was because of their positive reviews that I decided to give one a try. I'd overstretched something in my lower back and developed some sciatic pain. My regular doctor pretty much said "take some Tylenol and walk it off", which proved unsuccessful. It hurt too much to walk normally. All I could do was limp awkwardly, which only made it worse.

So the Doctor of Chiropractic did a superficial exam and took some sloppy x-rays. Then she announced (drum roll, please) that I suffered from "spinal subluxation". The treatment for SS is to come to the office three times a week for vertebral re-alignment.

I soon learned that "spinal subluxation" is the only arrow in the chiropractic quiver. Every complaint results in the same diagnosis and the same therapy. Got back pain? You've got a spinal subluxation. Neck hurts? Spinal subluxation. Caught a cold? Your spinal cord is out of line, suppressing your immune system. Once we get your backbone straightened out, your natural germ-fighting ability will be restored and you'll cure yourself. Bubonic plague? Let's get cracking!

I had fairly good health insurance, but did I mention that DC still collected a co-pay for every visit? Well, I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night. There appears to be a correlation between the neck-snapping industry and P. T. Barnum's maxim.

However, while the "manipulation" treatment was worthless, there was one therapy that provided some relief. She introduced me to Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation (TENS). After 20 minutes of tiny shocks, my sciatic pain subsided for a while, long enough to walk with a reasonably normal step. Walking it off really was the cure.

I did not return, and subsequently purchased a wearable TENS unit for less than the cost of a single DC visit. Lesson learned.

P.S. If you are a person who swears by chiropractic, carry on. I mentioned at the outset that several people whose brains I respect hold similar views. But all the firsthand data I have suggest the usefulness of this art is severely exaggerated.

 

[Jerry1]

Chiropractors can provide a very valuable service, but it’s not a cure all as they claim. I had a really bad back problem and the minute the DC hit a certain vertebrae and moved it back into place, I felt a ton better. Before that, I couldn’t even walk. I’m a little surprised they couldn’t improve you sciatica issue.

However, when they get into all the other claims, walk away.

 

[Sanstar]

I had increasing PN in both feet, starting about 5 years ago. Then hips started aching so bad I dreaded going to bed; rolling and turning all night. A1C’s have been fine. I take thyroid meds so attributed it to worsening thyroid function. After years of putting up with this, it finally dawned on me this all started shortly after we updated our mattress from Sealy firm to one with memory foam.

Went to a mattress store. Test drove all firm mattresses. Bought an adjustable, very firm Kingston. Hips and feet are getting better and better. It’s been two weeks. I can’t believe the difference and I can’t believe how long it took me to figure this out. Best $2K ever spent! Of course...YMMV but this was my experience and hope that while it won’t apply/help all experiencing PN, I must not miss an opportunity to help even one person get relief from this very painful condition.

 

[CyclingInvestor]

If it is diabetic peripheral neuropathy, it cannot be reversed. The goal becomes preventing further damage by keeping blood sugar under control - exercise, diet, weight loss, etc.

 

[msieweke]

I'll second the advice from imoldernu. Read those web pages.

Quite a few common drugs interfere with absorption of vitamin B12, and B12 deficiency can cause peripheral neuropathy. B12 supplements are cheap.

 

[Teacher Terry]

When my back goes out one hip is higher than the other and I am in a ton of pain. One adjustment and I am fine for at least a month. My child hates the quacks in his profession. Once I pulled my ribs out of place by coughing so bad and he popped them back in and instant relief.

 

[Col. Klink]

If it is diabetic peripheral neuropathy, it cannot be reversed. The goal becomes preventing further damage by keeping blood sugar under control - exercise, diet, weight loss, etc.

+1, this is spot on. There is no cure for diabetes. What is within your control is just what CyclingInvestor has indicated. As I prepared for retirement last year, I had this conversation with my PCP. He indicated that if I lost weight, my A1C would drop and the peripheral neuropathy would lessen. I shedded the weight by going on a paleo type diet eliminating pasta and white rice which we ate a lot. Also went alcohol free for the first month. My PCP cut my metformin dose in half. The peripheral neuropathy is there, but hardly noticeable.

One other piece of advice that has helped me... I injured my foot and went to a podiatrist to get treatment for the wound. He did a pressure point analysis of my feet and found that the wound was not healing well because I had too much of my weight on the balls of my feet. This very cool doctor said he could sell me orthotics for $500, or I could go to Walmart and jump on the Dr. Scholls machine there and try the Scholls orthotics for $45. The orthotics have been great and, I believe, these also help with the reduction of the neuropathy. Good luck!

 

[jimandthom]

TrvlLBug--- sounds to me that DH likes the approach of the seminar. It puts the blame on someone else should/when the nerve issue gets worse. The seminar is the easy way-- lifestyle change is not.

I have a neuropathy in my left foot and leg that occurred from an injury35 years ago. Never would have thought that your pelvis could shift multiple inches higher until it happened. Still has the occasion to get a bit out of whack. The chiro helps for that.

Our chiros (past and present) have never suggested bloodwork, mris or anything except a couple of xrays. The biggest recommendations have been stretching exercise, posture improvement, weight control, physical activity and also massage. They do some adjustments and they are an important part of our medical routine.

From personal observation and family history, the type 2 is not going to get any better without a life style change for DH

 

[TrvlBug]

Agree.

Read the book Sugar Crush by Dr. Richard P. Jacoby

Step two, go to a wholistic dr, make sure it’s an MD or DO, in other words, an actual dr and have his heavy metals tested. I think that’s about a couple hundred, not $3K.

Bacically, it is something you have to live with, but having reduced my sugar and reducing the mercury in my body, I can at least now feel things in my feet. I live on a slab house (concrete floor), and I can now feel that the floor is cold. Several years ago, I couldn’t even feel that.

FWIW, I have a very good chiropractor and while I’m sure having my spine adjusted doesn’t hurt, it never impacted my neuropathy. I’ve also been to a neurologist and testing shows that there is no actual nerve damage. It’s a difficult issue to deal with and you are right to be skeptical.

Given his diabetes, I think he may find Sugar Crush a good book. If he doesn’t get his sugar under control, he’s in for a very rough rest of his life. Best wishes.

Ordered the book from Amazon last night! I also dug out a few of the other diabetes books I bought when he was first diagnosed.

DH is not overweight, although he is at the high end of his BMI range. He was overweight when first diagnosed, lost 30 lbs., gained 10 back. He wants to lose those 10-15 as he feels best at that weight. We have started the healthy eating as of this morning. Now no more, let's get pizza tonight or no I don't want salad for lunch. Or pick up some Its Its or M&Ms while you're out grocery shopping. He's not a drinker, so no problem there. He probably averages a glass of wine every other week. There will be splurges, but they will be few and far between. We go to the gym 3x/wk as well as walk daily (weather permitting during the Dec-Feb rainy season) and will increase that.

His neuropathy predates his diabetes diagnosis. Both his parents suffered from it (no diabetes) and they lived a good life into their mid 90s. So other than the pain associated with his PN, if he gets the diabetes back under control with diet and exercise, he should be good to go (fingers crossed). I will also be searching for a good personal trainer to develop an exercise program incorporating core strengthening, balance, and stretching exercises. I'm amazed at what my PT accomplished once my hip problems were properly diagnosed...it wasn't the hips, it was the back stupid. From barely being able to walk without lots of pain to almost pain free in 6 months. I do the exercises religiously.

We had a long talk last night wrt the 'wellness center' and while his views are not as extreme as mine, he also has concerns with their sales pitch. He even suggested blowing off the initial appt. which I think will happen.

 

[TrvlBug]

I can't speak to chiropractor skills, and no medical knowledge, but I do have peripheral neuropathy in my hands... a nuisance, and becoming worse with age, but not seriously restrictive. Medicine for occasional pain, but livable. In my case, only danger is from burns (no feeling in hands) and the occasional cuts and bruises that only show up later.

That said, after reading this site, a clearer picture of the wide array of causes, symptoms, some help, and some more understanding is important.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/peripheral-neuropathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20352061

In the early days, about 7 years ago, a regular doctor diagnosed carpal tunnel, after asking if i used the computer a lot. After the operation, no change, and gradually both hands involved. With no obvious cause as diabetes or medicines, diagnosed a idiopathic polyneuropathy. The "poly" refers to hands and feet, or just both feet, or both hands.

The Mayo Clinic article describes the type of nerve damage that causes neuropathy, and the types of treatment... mostly diet/alcohol avoidance/ vitamin B, autoimmune diseases, and genes... but does not mention chiropractic treatment.

Two more sites to fill out the discussion:
https://www.foundationforpn.org/2016/04/11/5179/
and,
https://diabetesnewsjournal.com/2015/03/17/chiropractic-care-may-help-control-peripheral-neuropathy-in-diabetics/

Thank you for the links. DH has done a bit of research and we will do more. He also suffers from severe cramping which we suspect could be related. His mother, a non-diabetic, suffered from both all of her life.

 

[TrvlBug]

However, while the "manipulation" treatment was worthless, there was one therapy that provided some relief. She introduced me to Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation (TENS). After 20 minutes of tiny shocks, my sciatic pain subsided for a while, long enough to walk with a reasonably normal step. Walking it off really was the cure.

I did not return, and subsequently purchased a wearable TENS unit for less than the cost of a single DC visit. Lesson learned.

This, or something similar, is what our friend's parent is using to treat his neuropathy as well as healthy eating and other stuff. And he states it's helping him. The wellness center's seminar did mention some type of mechanical treatment as well as stem cell.

 

[Chuckanut]

Peripheral Neuropathy & Chiropractors

A couple of quick thoughts from an unqualified layman.

Your hubby may not appear tp be overweight, but he might be one of those ok on the outside but fat on the inside people. He may have fatty liver where all the extra fat is inside around the organs and isn’t as obvious

In terms of food, I have been helped by the two books - Always Hungry and Always Delicious - for very tasty slow carb meals. Get them at the library and make sure to read Always Hungry. It’s an eye opener, and written by a Dr who has the Creds to be taken seriously. Beware that the recipes require a fare amount of time in the kitchen, so give yourself time to learn or it can be overwhelming. You can’t eat right on highly processed food from the store or most restaurants.

Needless to say beware of anybody who wants to sell you special supplements, cleanses, purges, high priced ultra pure coffee beans, milk from Venezuelan beavers, super food juices, etc.

 

[TrvlBug]

A couple of quick thoughts from an unqualified layman.

Your hubby may not appear tp be overweight, but he might be one of those ok on the outside but fat on the inside people. He may have fatty liver where all the extra fat is inside around the organs and isn’t as obvious

In terms of food, I recommend the two books - Always Hungry and Always Delicious - for very tasty slow carb meals. Get them at the library and make to read Always Hungry. It’s an eye opener, and written by a Dr who has the Creds to be taken seriously. Beware that the recipes require a fare amount of time in the kitchen, so give yourself time to learn or it can be overwhelming. You can’t eat right on highly processed food from the store or most restaurants.

Just ordered the books...thank you. Being retired I've got lots of time! I do tend to shop the outside aisles and we rarely eat out. I'm now just getting into roasting veggies (eating nothing but salad and steamed veggies is getting old). DH was a road warrior during his working years and hated the eating out part. Our problem is that we are both picky eaters so making good nutritious meals we both like can be a challenge. I told him we need to suck it up and learn to like the food that's good for us .

Wrt to DH's weight...ding, ding, ding. Fatty liver has been diagnosed and biopsied decades ago. He still gets blood tests for it.

 

[TrvlBug]

Good news. DH just advised that he thinks we should blow off the wellness center. $200 is cheap for the lesson learned .

 

[msieweke]

Thank you for the links. DH has done a bit of research and we will do more. He also suffers from severe cramping which we suspect could be related. His mother, a non-diabetic, suffered from both all of her life.

I know this is a stretch, but cramping indicates a possible problem absorbing minerals. If the PN is B12-related, that's also an absorption problem. Both can be caused by low stomach acid. Hypothyroidism is a common problem of low stomach acid. The bad news is that it's challenging to get a proper diagnosis of hypothyroidism if your TSH is "normal". I've been down this road and had to self-diagnose.