Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: Do you have a LCHF diet as a lifestyle?
Yes 46 35.94%
No 40 31.25%
Sometimes (On and Off) 42 32.81%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2019, 06:25 AM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,317
I have experimented with LCHF for more than 5 years. I have concluded that for me (and me only since this is anecdotal) calories is what counts but LCHF allows me to control weight without counting calories. As I got into my 60s I grew dissatisfied with my weight. I had gained about a pound a year for decades and at 6', 195 lbs and climbing I had a beer belly that I was always sucking in. I read Taubes and similar books and concluded that LCHF was worth a shot.

I used the New Adkins diet as a guide but decided to start at step two. Instead of going zero carb Keto for a few weeks I aimed for 50-100 grams of carbs a day. The Atkins approach is easy to follow once you master reading nutrition labels on packages and online nutrition tables for whole foods. I never targeted or counted calories. I simply ate as much as I liked while counting grams of digestible carbs and keeping them under 100/day. The pounds rapidly dropped off until I stabilized at 163 which was about where I was in my early 30s. I was surprised to find that the belly fat disappeared - I expected to lose that last. The diet was pretty easy for me since I love bacon, eggs, meats, fish, sausages, nuts, cheeses, etc. My biggest surprise is that my "numbers" improved. I was able to drop statins with only a moderate increase in my LDL, a substantial increase in HDL, and a big drop in triglycerides. I still view my diet as unhealthy (I hate vegetables) but I am less concerned than I expected to be.

My success increased my interest in LCHF so for a while I became a bit of a fanboy. But as I increased my readings, I became skeptical of the insulin theory of Taubes and other LCHF proponents. Stephen Guyenet is a very professional researcher who has published studies that cast a lot of doubt on Taubes' et al. After about six months at 163 I started to experiment. I increased the amount of potatoes and rice I ate with no impact on weight. Hamburgers with half a bun, no impact. Later, I added back moderate amounts of pasta, also with no impact. What I stayed away from was sugar, especially chocolate which is my major addiction. Again, several more years without weight change and continued stable lipid numbers. Finally, about a year ago I started experimenting with my craving for chocolates. I now indulge in Trader Joe's Pound+ Belgian chocolate bars. Unfortunately when I buy them I eat A LOT - about 8 ounces a day. When I do that I switch back to my old weight gain mode and slowly creep up. I weigh myself every morning at the same time and always cut the chocolate out if I breach 165. Within days of stopping the chocolate I drop back to 163. Other than the chocolate I avoid most other sugars except on special occasions (eg, a fancy dinner with desert).

I suspect that, for me at least, what is happening is that a LCHF, whole foods diet allows my body's natural homeostatic signals to trigger satiety before I over consume, thus the ability to eat as much as I want. If I add too much sugar I will throw the homeostasis off and start the gradual climb.

I know what the correct answer is - avoid the bad stuff like the plague. I am playing with fire by screwing around with my chocolate addiction. I recommend that others avoid such dangerous behavior. Once you find an optimal diet that works stick with it.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-25-2019, 06:27 AM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jimbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRoy View Post
Lot of fruit, whole grains, cheese, eggs, meat.
How is eating a lot of fruit, "low carb"? Fruit is full of carbohydrates. That is what I mean by, what is the definition? I must be too dense.
jimbee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 06:32 AM   #43
Moderator
Aerides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
How is eating a lot of fruit, "low carb"? Fruit is full of carbohydrates. That is what I mean by, what is the definition? I must be too dense.
It depends. Yes, for the intro phase of most carb-restricting diets, fruits are very limited. But a lot of fruits are high in fiber, offsetting some of the sugar, and can be added back in after the initial keto-restrictive phases, ie, when one allows for 20-50 daily carbs.

Most of the melon family, and strawberries, are fine for "post phase 1."
Aerides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 06:35 AM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jimbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,214
At least there are some numbers there. ^^^
I assume 20-50 daily carbs means 20 to 50 grams of carbohydrates? Then I am definitely not "low carb" because I eat apples, bananas, raisins, carrots, and other assorted produce every day.
jimbee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:15 AM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
Lawrencewendall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Severn
Posts: 947
I've read that when you first start, the goal should be under 20 grams for the first month and then settle in to less than 50 grams a day after that. I find it pretty easy to stay under 20 almost every day. I also take 6 fiber pills in the morning and 6 in the evening. 1 1/2 years in, down 25 lbs. A1c went from 8.6 to 5.3. YMMV
Lawrencewendall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:29 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
How is eating a lot of fruit, "low carb"? Fruit is full of carbohydrates. That is what I mean by, what is the definition? I must be too dense.
Not to mention he listed grains as well.

50g net carbs daily is generally considered the max level for “low carb”, at least with respect to maintaining ketosis if that is your goal.

Moderately higher levels than that are still much lower carb than the traditional American diet or the food pyramid. I suspect 100g net carbs daily limit would still provide lots of the benefits even without ketosis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee View Post
At least there are some numbers there. ^^^
I assume 20-50 daily carbs means 20 to 50 grams of carbohydrates? Then I am definitely not "low carb" because I eat apples, bananas, raisins, carrots, and other assorted produce every day.
Yes, the daily count is grams of net carbs. The fiber which does not pass to the blood stream is subtracted out from the total carbs listed on a nutrition label.

Even using subtracting out the fiber, if you eat plenty of fruit daily including dried fruit, you are probably well above 50 net carbs.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:30 AM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrencewendall View Post
I've read that when you first start, the goal should be under 20 grams for the first month and then settle in to less than 50 grams a day after that. I find it prety easy to stay under 20 almost every day. 1 1/2 years in, down 25 lbs. A1c went from 8.6 to 5.3. YMMV
There are a bunch of different approaches depending on how quickly you want things to happen.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:33 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRoy View Post
Lot of fruit, whole grains, cheese, eggs, meat.
This sounds like a moderate carb diet at best. It’s tough to stay under 50 net carbs a day when consuming any grains and eating large amounts of fruit.

Nothing wrong with a moderate carb diet for a healthy person, I just wanted to make the distinction.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:47 AM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff View Post
I have experimented with LCHF for more than 5 years. I have concluded that for me (and me only since this is anecdotal) calories is what counts but LCHF allows me to control weight without counting calories. As I got into my 60s I grew dissatisfied with my weight. I had gained about a pound a year for decades and at 6', 195 lbs and climbing I had a beer belly that I was always sucking in. I read Taubes and similar books and concluded that LCHF was worth a shot.

I used the New Adkins diet as a guide but decided to start at step two. Instead of going zero carb Keto for a few weeks I aimed for 50-100 grams of carbs a day. The Atkins approach is easy to follow once you master reading nutrition labels on packages and online nutrition tables for whole foods. I never targeted or counted calories. I simply ate as much as I liked while counting grams of digestible carbs and keeping them under 100/day. The pounds rapidly dropped off until I stabilized at 163 which was about where I was in my early 30s. I was surprised to find that the belly fat disappeared - I expected to lose that last. The diet was pretty easy for me since I love bacon, eggs, meats, fish, sausages, nuts, cheeses, etc. My biggest surprise is that my "numbers" improved. I was able to drop statins with only a moderate increase in my LDL, a substantial increase in HDL, and a big drop in triglycerides. I still view my diet as unhealthy (I hate vegetables) but I am less concerned than I expected to be.

My success increased my interest in LCHF so for a while I became a bit of a fanboy. But as I increased my readings, I became skeptical of the insulin theory of Taubes and other LCHF proponents. Stephen Guyenet is a very professional researcher who has published studies that cast a lot of doubt on Taubes' et al. After about six months at 163 I started to experiment. I increased the amount of potatoes and rice I ate with no impact on weight. Hamburgers with half a bun, no impact. Later, I added back moderate amounts of pasta, also with no impact. What I stayed away from was sugar, especially chocolate which is my major addiction. Again, several more years without weight change and continued stable lipid numbers. Finally, about a year ago I started experimenting with my craving for chocolates. I now indulge in Trader Joe's Pound+ Belgian chocolate bars. Unfortunately when I buy them I eat A LOT - about 8 ounces a day. When I do that I switch back to my old weight gain mode and slowly creep up. I weigh myself every morning at the same time and always cut the chocolate out if I breach 165. Within days of stopping the chocolate I drop back to 163. Other than the chocolate I avoid most other sugars except on special occasions (eg, a fancy dinner with desert).

I suspect that, for me at least, what is happening is that a LCHF, whole foods diet allows my body's natural homeostatic signals to trigger satiety before I over consume, thus the ability to eat as much as I want. If I add too much sugar I will throw the homeostasis off and start the gradual climb.

I know what the correct answer is - avoid the bad stuff like the plague. I am playing with fire by screwing around with my chocolate addiction. I recommend that others avoid such dangerous behavior. Once you find an optimal diet that works stick with it.
That’s a very interesting detailed history Don. So you used lower carb without ketosis to get to your ideal weight, and also could drop statins. And then gradually shifted to a moderate carb diet that let you maintain your healthy weight. I assume your blood sugar and lipid numbers stayed in the healthy range? What was it about the insulin hypothesis that turned you off? Did you feel like you were taking health risks if you ate lower carb? Thanks.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 07:49 AM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jimbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
Not to mention he listed grains as well.

50g net carbs daily is generally considered the max level for “low carb”, at least with respect to maintaining ketosis if that is your goal.

Moderately higher levels than that are still much lower carb than the traditional American diet or the food pyramid. I suspect 100g net carbs daily limit would still provide lots of the benefits even without ketosis.



Yes, the daily count is grams of net carbs. The fiber which does not pass to the blood stream is subtracted out from the total carbs listed on a nutrition label.

Even using subtracting out the fiber, if you eat plenty of fruit daily including dried fruit, you are probably well above 50 net carbs.

Thank you for the explanation, audreyh1.
jimbee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:44 AM   #51
Moderator
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,656
I have in the past, but answered "no".


I still avoid refined carbs, but have found that eating one meal a day keeps my weight level. And it's a free-for-all, portion control be damned meal, but no sugar or flour.



It's hard to do when away, but really easy for me when home.


What I find is that a typical restaurant meal isn't enough food if that's my only meal of the day, so I need to eat some of my squirrel food that I carry when I'm away (nuts and seeds).
sengsational is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:01 AM   #52
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
My biggest challenge in following LCHF is eating cereals for breakfast because it's expedient and then snacking after dinner on tostitos or popcorn. For some reason I am addicted to salty snacks. I'm ~ 180 lbs at 5'10" and could stand to lose another 5 lbs, but mainly I want to keep my A1C in check.
eytonxav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:25 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,499
What do I consume? Whole foods, meat, poultry, fish, full fat dairy, eggs, nuts, low starch veggies, olive oil, butter, coffee with 1/2 and 1/2, water, minimal amounts of wine, occasional bourbon, and a small amount of berries, Aldi 86% dark chocolate, additional small amounts of seasonal fruit (when my weight is down).

What do I avoid? Sugar, flour, rice, beer, grains, processed vegetable oils, soda and fruit juices, processed food, artificial sweeteners, processed meat (except bacon - I really like bacon ), and high starch veggies.
__________________
"Oh, twice as much ain't twice as good
And can't sustain like one half could
It's wanting more that's gonna send me to my knees" - John Mayer
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:28 AM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,708
When I started on a lower carb diet (45 grams/meal, no more than 10 grams sugar) I quickly realized that most of the fiber was gone too. I now eat a can of low salt black beans (45 gms net carbs, 32 gms fiber) with spices as 1 meal each day, in addition to plenty of spinach, avocado, salmon, and tuna.
__________________
learn, work, save, invest, fire
CyclingInvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:49 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Teacher Terry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,001
The people I know that have taken Medformin have lost a ton of weight without trying. It must speed up the metabolism.
Teacher Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:50 AM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor View Post
When I started on a lower carb diet (45 grams/meal, no more than 10 grams sugar) I quickly realized that most of the fiber was gone too. I now eat a can of low salt black beans (45 gms net carbs, 32 gms fiber) with spices as 1 meal each day, in addition to plenty of spinach, avocado, salmon, and tuna.
I love beans and believe the evidence supports their benefits. But, I tend to stay on the high side of my weight range so I limit them (darn). My DW, on the other hand, is near the low end of her weight range. So, she eats beans, more fruit than I and sweat potatoes to maintain her weight. We are both amazed at the results we receive from altering carbs up or down.
__________________
"Oh, twice as much ain't twice as good
And can't sustain like one half could
It's wanting more that's gonna send me to my knees" - John Mayer
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 11:22 AM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post

I do agree that, if you're someone who wants to eat lots of fiber, you should get it from natural foods, not supplements. Eat some good veggies; don't sprinkle cardboard on your cereal. ;p
Agreed. No cardboard fiber.

Same with fats. Eat the fat naturally occurring in real food, not oils chemically processed out of cotton or rapeseed plants.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 11:39 AM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
That’s a very interesting detailed history Don. So you used lower carb without ketosis to get to your ideal weight, and also could drop statins. And then gradually shifted to a moderate carb diet that let you maintain your healthy weight. I assume your blood sugar and lipid numbers stayed in the healthy range? What was it about the insulin hypothesis that turned you off? Did you feel like you were taking health risks if you ate lower carb? Thanks.
My lipids have stayed relatively steady as has my blood sugar. But I usually avoid big sugar doses before my blood tests. I am probably hiding from the truth since I believe the triglycerides must go up when I binge on chocolate. After all, they were higher when I started.

As for the insulin hypothesis, I found Gary Taubes' books pretty compelling. But then I started reading a lot of stuff pro and con. Stephen Guyenet is very good. His detailed explanations about why the insulin story doesn't stand up were even more compelling. Taubes has appeared pretty uncompromising in debates despite pretty compelling evidence that something else is going on. I think for many of us LCHF works, but I suspect it is by letting us naturally consume less calories not by enabling us to metabolize more calories. To me, it is academic why the approach works, the important factor is that it does. A 17% loss in six months that has held up effortlessly is impossible to ignore.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 12:05 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
The people I know that have taken Medformin have lost a ton of weight without trying. It must speed up the metabolism.
I don’t think it’s a speed up in metabolism. Rather, I think it’s improved blood sugar metabolism.

I think Metformin reduces muscular insulin resistance, making it easier for muscles to absorb blood glucose, and thus reducing insulin in the blood. High insulin levels in the blood due to high blood sugar and resistant muscles keeps people hungry.

I think this is saying more or less the same thing - the better response to insulin = lowered insulin resistance. But they also mention the liver releasing less sugar.:
Quote:
Metformin works by reducing the amount of sugar your liver releases into your blood. It also makes your body respond better to insulin. Insulin is the hormone that controls the level of sugar in your blood. It's best to take metformin with a meal to reduce the side effects.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 12:11 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff View Post
I think for many of us LCHF works, but I suspect it is by letting us naturally consume less calories not by enabling us to metabolize more calories. To me, it is academic why the approach works, the important factor is that it does. A 17% loss in six months that has held up effortlessly is impossible to ignore.
Right, I’m not hung up on a particular hypothesis either.

But you chose to move to a moderate+ carb diet rather than staying under 100g carbs. I suppose it’s just that you had more food options and had demonstrated to yourself you could maintain your weight on such a diet?
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low Carb Diet Z3Dreamer Health and Early Retirement 265 12-05-2018 03:07 PM
Low Carb Diet Issues haha Health and Early Retirement 35 07-21-2011 10:29 PM
Low carb diet risks Purron Health and Early Retirement 32 09-24-2010 08:18 AM
Low fat diet = Atkins diet? Orchidflower Health and Early Retirement 60 12-01-2009 08:13 AM
High-carb, low-glycemic-index diet best for weight loss and CVD risk reduction wabmester Other topics 37 09-03-2006 04:20 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:57 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.