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Poll: Whos is in favor of a single payer Health Care System?
Old 10-16-2013, 10:23 AM   #1
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Poll: Whos is in favor of a single payer Health Care System?

There are purposely only 2 options Yes or No. Please make the assumption that the funding would be based Income Tax deductions (for All), and based on income levels, as in most other countries that adopt Single Payer.

Everyone would get the same level of coverage and have the ability to purchase upgrades such as private rooms etc. separately. Sort of like Medicare. If one wants to use a private medical institution they can do so at their cost. Using this system EVERYONE would be covered regardless of income and means for the basic coverage.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:45 AM   #2
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While this thread is likely to become bacon-bait, I'll weigh in while it lasts.

I would favor something in between, where all citizens are required to have health insurance (so those without are not a burden to society if they have an adverse heath event) and where the cost is scaled to income (like some not-for-profit medical clinics do - so it is affordable for all as well), but I would want to retain the freedom of choice, personal responsibility and competition of private health insurance. One could argue that I just described Obamacare (if they can get it to work).
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #3
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Yes, but I wonder if it should only be for preventative measures and necessary procedures. There should be more cost-sharing for optional surgeries and treatments. Heart attack -- fully covered. The ACL reconstruction on my knee -- only partial coverage, or pay extra for a policy to cover these things fully. I could have skipped surgery, and one doc even recommended trying that first, but I chose the surgery because of my very active lifestyle. I wouldn't have wanted to wait a year for that surgery because people who really didn't need it figured they might as well get it done for free.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:12 AM   #4
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Absolutely. Then I can up my ancient 84.6 life expectancy on my withdrawal calc. to 91. Heh heh of course I already did that. Then I can live as long as my ancestors(Finns and Swedes)? Or become happy as Dane?

Nah. I'd rather scream and yell while watching football. That durn Brady beating my Saints.



heh heh heh - well past 65 I'm in the bleachers eating popcorn on this one. Note - I went 12 years early in ER (age 50-62) without any health insurance.

So I don't recommend anybody listening to me.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #5
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I think everyone should have whatever they want, whenever they want, from whomever they want, and the rich should pay for it, perhaps by a tax on single malt whisky or craft spirits. To inject an element of personal responsibility, I prefer that some small % of surgeries be randomly assigned to euthanasia rather than the scheduled operation.

Bread and circuses for all, and call girls for the emperors friends. 24-7 UFC matches beamed from satellites, and The View too.

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Old 10-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
While this thread is likely to become bacon-bait, I'll weigh in while it lasts.

I would favor something in between, where all citizens are required to have health insurance (so those without are not a burden to society if they have an adverse heath event) and where the cost is scaled to income (like some not-for-profit medical clinics do - so it is affordable for all as well), but I would want to retain the freedom of choice, personal responsibility and competition of private health insurance. One could argue that I just described Obamacare (if they can get it to work).
I definitely think somewhere in-between is the answer. There is at least one European country that provides a subsidy based on income (I think it's Switzerland but I'm not certain). For those that have low income much of their premium is covered by the subsidy. For higher incomes, the subsidy tapers off. Everyone buys their own insurance and nobody knows who receives the subsidy/voucher because it doesn't matter. I think this type of system could replace Medicaid and Medicare. Everyone buys insurance and depending on your income the taxpayers subsidize your premium or not. With this system you don't have to be pushed into one plan or another - you buy what you want, how much you want, etc. Seems like a great idea to me.

When PPACA was in its incubation stage I wrote to Representatives, Senators and the President but did they care? Apparently not, we ended up with PPACA and all its problems.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #7
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Perhaps we have undue influence from our neighbor up north, who's closest to us.

However, if one looks at other countries with universal healthcare, which is what is really wanted, then he will see that France, Germany, Switzerland, and Japan are examples of systems that are not single-payer. The above are the better known ones, and there's more.

One needs to know that there are more than just a single way to solve a problem.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #8
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Recently, I stumbled across the blog of a woman (now deceased) who lived in a country with a single-payer system. Her cancer had metastasized to her spinal column, causing a lot of pain.

She had to sit and wait for 2 hours (!!!) in a hospital, to wait for her blood drawn in preparation for her palliative chemo treatment. She asked the nurses if she could cut to the front of the line, due to her terminal illness. The answer is "NO!".

Where I am, for a blood test, I could walk to a clinic with doctor's order in hand, no appointment necessary, have my blood drawn and walk out of there in 15 min at the quickest, or a 30 min wait on Monday morning (people are fasting for the test hence everyone goes early).

My insurance company sent me copies of the bills, hence I know the costs for everything. A CBC blood test: $16 total. A more complete test typically ordered for an annual exam, plus a urine test: less than $70.

It was quicker than getting my tires changed at Costco, and costs less than anything an automechanic would charge me.

PS. The above woman lived in the capital city of a large major country with a single-payer system, not in a boondock in a remote corner of a continent. Needless to say, I will keep this country nameless, but will provide the link to her blog detailing the treatment she received if someone sends me a PM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:21 PM   #9
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Recently, I stumbled across the blog of a woman (now deceased) who lived in a country with a single-payer system. Her cancer had metastasized to her spinal column, causing a lot of pain.
The last time WHO did a study of health care by country, the U.S. was first in cost (by a wide margin) and 38th in quality.

A more recent study on the health of the population of 17 developed countries, all with some form of universal care except the U.S., the U.S. came in dead last -

New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last - Grace Rubenstein - The Atlantic
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:32 PM   #10
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While I do not claim to be a healthcare expert, I think the high healthcare cost in the US is due to hospitalization costs, not the routine health care as I pointed out in the examples above. Additionally, the cost for end-of-life treatment is horrendous in the US, and it is going to go a lot higher. That's what needs to be addressed.

Regarding quality of service, I myself have no problems (and I have been using a lot of healthcare recently so can speak out of real experience), and other older family members like my parents and parents-in-law who are on Medicare do not have any complaints. Of course, the geezers in my family do not have to pay much out-of-pocket, so they do not have problems with costs. They often do not even know what something really costs, while I do mine because of my high deductible.

The above said, the quality of service may be lousy in some rural parts of the US. I just have the fortune to be in a metropolitan area with plenty of healthcare providers.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
The last time WHO did a study of health care by country, the U.S. was first in cost (by a wide margin) and 38th in quality.

A more recent study on the health of the population of 17 developed countries, all with some form of universal care except the U.S., the U.S. came in dead last -

New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last - Grace Rubenstein - The Atlantic
None of these other countries has a population even remotely like the US. Look how many excess US deaths are caused by people killing other people. Most of these other countries have much better educated populations, more law abiding, more literate and enumerate. On a population wide basis, Americans are astoundingly stupid, ill educated, violent group. Also, the sheer size of our country means that some things are more likely to be lethal here than in much smaller, more densely populated countries.

Ha
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #12
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I'm amazed that a majority of the members of this forum (or at least a majority of those who have voted so far) favor a single payer system. This group tilts very heavily towards a philosophy of self-responsibility, self-reliance and independent thinking. I can't reconcile how such a group would be willing to hand over responsibility for their health care to our federal government!!
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #13
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I'm amazed that a majority of the members of this forum (or at least a majority of those who have voted so far) favor a single payer system. This group tilts very heavily towards a philosophy of self-responsibility, self-reliance and independent thinking. I can't reconcile how such a group would be willing to hand over responsibility for their health care to our federal government!!
They think they can keep their taxable incomes low enough to get somebody else to pay for their care.

Ha
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:55 PM   #14
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I'm amazed that a majority of the members of this forum (or at least a majority of those who have voted so far) favor a single payer system. This group tilts very heavily towards a philosophy of self-responsibility, self-reliance and independent thinking. I can't reconcile how such a group would be willing to hand over responsibility for their health care to our federal government!!
The U.S. is one of the few developed countries without some form of universal, government involved health care system, and our health care costs are much higher than other countries with higher rated systems by a quite a wide margin.

I think many people here have had the opportunity to travel and see the way the rest of the world works.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #15
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Ok.

But this is really getting serious. Maybe not an issue for us men in the later stages of life. But what about my children?

Eating bacon lowers sperm quality, study shows | Fox News
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #16
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The U.S. is one of the few developed countries without some form of universal, government involved health care system, and our health care costs are much higher than other countries with higher rated systems by a quite a wide margin.

I think many people here have had the opportunity to travel and see the way the rest of the world works.
Again, universal health care is not synonymous with single-payer, and most people only know of the latter.

I have traveled to many developed Western countries. However, I know or learn nothing about their healthcare system in my travel. Most of what I learned was from watching documentaries and researching on the Web.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:01 PM   #17
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Assuming that single payer means there would be negotiated pricing done on a national scale, something that is prohibited for prescription drugs currently.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:03 PM   #18
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Regarding quality of service, I myself have no problems (and I have been using a lot of healthcare recently so can speak out of real experience), and other older family members like my parents and parents-in-law who are on Medicare do not have any complaints. Of course, the geezers in my family do not have to pay much out-of-pocket, so they do not have problems with costs. They often do not even know what something really costs, while I do mine because of my high deductible.
Umm... Medicare is a form of a single payer system. It's the private payer system that is in question.

And while you've had good experiences my daughter went into a clinic for a splinter removal (5 minutes) and got an $840 bill (love the coding systems) so for every good story there are lots of bad ones too.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #19
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Perhaps we have undue influence from our neighbor up north, who's closest to us. However, if one looks at other countries with universal healthcare, which is what is really wanted, then he will see that France, Germany, Switzerland, and Japan are examples of systems that are not single-payer. The above are the better known ones, and there's more. One needs to know that there are more than just a single way to solve a problem.
Those countries are good examples but the government is in control of the prices, and health insurance companies have to be non-profit. I believe all countries with universal health care have very heavy government control, even if delivery of the services comes from the private sector.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #20
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They think they can keep their taxable incomes low enough to get somebody else to pay for their care.
To me the real question is whether one believes there should be a right to healthcare.

If one believes that we should have all have personal freedom to make our own choices and live with the consequences that's fine but leaving 50 Million people to go to the emergency room as their only option isn't really healthcare.
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