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Old 11-18-2010, 11:00 AM   #41
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For example, any group of people (members of this website for example) could get together and get group insurance.
If would be interesting to give it a try.
Do you have any examples of such groups and rates that they get?
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #42
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If would be interesting to give it a try.
Do you have any examples of such groups and rates that they get?
Don't know where he got that info from, but you can't just form a group and get a group policy. It has to be a business with full-time employees and quarterly wage and tax reports. That was part of the problem with the healthcare bill, industry trade groups and associations wanted to be able to create groups to buy health insurance and it was not included with the bill. I'm an insurance agent, it would be nice if all insurance agents could band together and get a large group policy, but they won't allow it.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:05 AM   #43
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But they are already sick, so it's not fair they have been without insurance and then: oops, I'm sick, better get insurance!
I don't see what's unfair about it. I do see that it is no longer purely an insurance plan, because it has come to have a social welfare component. But that's just a matter of terminology, not fairness. Call it by some different term, if you'd like.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:59 AM   #44
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ERD, what are we discussing? The thread originator has asked three leading questions but not yet said “I think” or “I believe” or “I propose”. He has not really indicated what the purpose of this discussion is. The closest thing has been in post 4
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I would argue it is that individual's personal responsibility
but then just leaves it there.

The way these questions have been framed it is not possible to engage in a rational and consequential discussion. Are we talking about how our health care system should ideally be or are we talking about practices and policies we should implement now? Context is needed. I thought the answers for the first question were comprehensive, yet the subsequent questions seem to ignore them.

The responses you define as hostile I see as reaction to an agenda that is not clear. If this thread is reframed or some additional guidance given, I’m sure the posts will become more positive and probably more balanced. If you want to take up the standard, great – it’s been too long since our last health care debate.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:45 PM   #45
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Atlas Shrugged isn't a discussion -- it's just an very long extended insult to all capable of human charity.
What's charity got to do with this? Charity doesn't begin at the end of a gun. When you and a friend get together and decide that another person must provide health care for someone else or face time in prison, we could call it a lot of things, but "charitable" isn't one of them.
There may be good reasons that we, as a society, might want to compel people to give what they earned to others. But don't sully the good name of "charity" in this effort.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:56 PM   #46
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GregLee and I certainly read Ayn Rand differently. Where he see's an insult to human charity, I see a thesis having little to say about charity, and much to say about communism and other "isms" that require the able to support the needlessly unable.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:27 PM   #47
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GregLee and I certainly read Ayn Rand differently. Where he see's an insult to human charity, I see a thesis ...
Yes, I suppose it's a thesis, but aside from any relationship to charity, I'm saying (just to be clear) that Atlas Shrugged is not a discussion and that it is insulting. Because Ayn Rand used the device of making her characters with views she opposed into really despicable people. I simply disagreed with her forthright writings on philosophy, but I hated Atlas Shrugged.

By the way, I did not say I saw "an insult to human charity."
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:46 PM   #48
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Don't know where he got that info from, but you can't just form a group and get a group policy. It has to be a business with full-time employees and quarterly wage and tax reports. That was part of the problem with the healthcare bill, industry trade groups and associations wanted to be able to create groups to buy health insurance and it was not included with the bill. I'm an insurance agent, it would be nice if all insurance agents could band together and get a large group policy, but they won't allow it.
How to Get Group Health Insurance Coverage Through a Membership Organization
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:47 PM   #49
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I'll agree wih that. AS isn't a discussion, more of a diatribe. No shades of gray in any of those characters.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:51 PM   #50
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I don't see what's unfair about it. I do see that it is no longer purely an insurance plan, because it has come to have a social welfare component. But that's just a matter of terminology, not fairness. Call it by some different term, if you'd like.
Its more than a different term. What you want is the Govt provided health care, which is worlds away from what we have today (before or after the healthcare reform).
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #51
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Yes, I suppose it's a thesis, but aside from any relationship to charity, I'm saying (just to be clear) that Atlas Shrugged is not a discussion and that it is insulting. Because Ayn Rand used the device of making her characters with views she opposed into really despicable people. I simply disagreed with her forthright writings on philosophy, but I hated Atlas Shrugged.
I agree to the extent that Atlas Shrugged uses "over the top" characterizations in much the same way that Michael Moore does in his so-called "documentaries." Lots of examples of this style of writing representing many viewpoints.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:33 PM   #52
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I agree to the extend that Atlas Shrugged uses "over the top" characterizations in much the same way that Michael Moore does in his so-called "documentaries."
That's a reasonable comparison. I can't stand Michael Moore.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:37 PM   #53
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We can really lower the costs of medical care if we simply allow the unworthy to die.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:55 PM   #54
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The author of that article has no idea what they're talking about. I looked at her bio, she's a property and casualty agent, so that would explain her lack of understanding. I bet she sells a whole lot of Assurant Right Start policies though!
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:00 PM   #55
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The author of that article has no idea what they're talking about.
Isn't this a membership program?

IEEE - IEEE Insurance Services

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Old 11-18-2010, 04:09 PM   #56
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Isn't this a membership program?

IEEE - IEEE Insurance Services

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This sounds great, sign me right up. I wonder if they've ever paid a single claim:

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That's exactly why the $2,000,000 Catastrophe Major Medical Insurance Plan has been designed-TO TAKE OVER WHEN YOUR BASIC HEALTH INSURANCE RUNS SHORT-to help protect you when your basic health insurance plan limits your coverage and after you have met your $25,000 or $50,000 deductible.

Who Is Eligible?
All members in good standing who are U.S. residents are eligible to apply for member or spouse coverage, regardless of age, as well as their unmarried dependent children typically under age 21 (age 27 if in school full-time), provided each applicant is covered by a basic major medical plan (including an HMO or PPO) or Medicare parts A and B. (Dependent child ages vary by state.) (See Pre-Existing Conditions Limitation further on.)

The plan is not available in Arizona, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington state, or Canada and other foreign countries. (A state specific plan is available for residents of NY. Please call the Administrator.)

How This Plan Works
This Plan is designed to help provide financial protection for extraordinary medical expenses not covered by your current medical insurance plan, or Medicare.
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:46 PM   #57
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This sounds great, sign me right up. I wonder if they've ever paid a single claim:
Interesting, it looks like other than short term policies, everything is 'supplemental', with all those ifs, ands, buts.

I guess I don't feel too bad letting my membership lapse about 30 years ago.

One of my backup plans was to try to get coverage by getting on the payroll (even if I had to pay him) of a small business owner I know. We had discussed, he was open to it, but who knows if I really had to take him up on it.

-ERD50
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:40 PM   #58
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Interesting, it looks like other than short term policies, everything is 'supplemental', with all those ifs, ands, buts.

I guess I don't feel too bad letting my membership lapse about 30 years ago.

One of my backup plans was to try to get coverage by getting on the payroll (even if I had to pay him) of a small business owner I know. We had discussed, he was open to it, but who knows if I really had to take him up on it.

-ERD50
That's how most of these associations work. They're either supplemental or limited benefit policies at a ridiculous price for what you get.

Like I said, you can't just join an association and get group health insurance (or major medical at least, which is what everyone wants). There are some states that will let you have a one-person group or let you use association membership to do a one-person group, but there still has to be an actual business that you own and work full time on if trying to set it up that way. This could have been fixed in the healthcare bill by allowing associations to have group health, but it wasn't included because politicians don't know anything about how health insurance works.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:50 PM   #59
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I'm retired and age 56 now. I have insurance through DW's job, she's younger. I have enough health issues that I'm pretty sure I'd be denied individual insurance when DW retires and COBRA runs out. If I had been paying my own insurance instead of getting it through w*rk (mine or DW's) I'd be able to just continue it until I hit 65. But because it's though work, all I can do is COBRA for a short time and then join a high-risk pool. That doesn't sound like good coverage or reasonable cost. Kind of makes it tough to ER just now. I'm hoping DW decides to keep working until 2014 and the new healthcare law survives.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:02 AM   #60
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I have enough health issues that I'm pretty sure I'd be denied individual insurance But because it's though work, all I can do is COBRA for a short time and then join a high-risk pool. That doesn't sound like good coverage or reasonable cost. Kind of makes it tough to ER just now. I'm hoping DW decides to keep working until 2014 and the new healthcare law survives.
Ditto, if the Dems moved up the benefits to 2011, they wouldn't have half the problems their having. Before you do COBRA, you should check to see if you can get individual insurance first, because it would be better to lock in coverage IF you can.
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