Question About Soap and Shampoo

[Sarah in SC]

We clearly need a few more dirty hippies around here.
I went a week between showers when we lived aboard, as we had to pay for showers ashore. I enjoy revisiting the lifestyle when we "go feral" for music festivals. Harley may be willing to attest that we didn't smell too bad.
You guys sure work hard to keep up ya' hygiene.

 

[haha]

You guys sure work hard to keep up ya' hygiene.

That may be because some of us are single.

I would say though that in general women have much better personal hygeine than men, except men who are athletes or go to gym daily and therefor get daily showers.

In maybe 20 years of going to dances I only ran across one woman who did not smell good. I imagine that she must have had some sort of physiological problem that made her have BO. I knew one mid forties woman who had no sense of smell. She would go to her next door neighbors before going out and get a sniff test. Funniest thing is that maybe because she was anxious about it, she always smelled very good.

Ha

 

[HFWR]

Use simple soap ((Kirk's Castile ?), only use soap on portions of body subject to smelling bad.

"...you don't always need a shower! All you really need to do is to wash the four key areas! Armpits, ***hole, crotch and teeth! Got that? Armpits, ***hole, crotch and teeth! In fact, you can save yourself a lot of time if you simply use the same brush on all four areas!"

I use Ivory in the summer, but Dove in the winter. Top that off with a slathering of Walmart-store brand lotion...

I think the combo of hot, overly-chlorinated water and low humidity plays heck on sensitive skin.

 

[harley]

We clearly need a few more dirty hippies around here.
I went a week between showers when we lived aboard, as we had to pay for showers ashore. I enjoy revisiting the lifestyle when we "go feral" for music festivals. Harley may be willing to attest that we didn't smell too bad.
You guys sure work hard to keep up ya' hygiene.

You certainly didn't. I can't speak for Don. Also, there was a heavy layer of dust covering everything and everybody, which may have acted to wick away the perspiration (see below, from your own collection). Also, mostly all I could smell was the beer on my breath. But you're right, it doesn't seem to matter when you're listening to good music and having fun. Ha, on the other hand, is acting civilized and trying to impress the ladies, who probably don't have quite the same sensibilities we do.

 

[tmm99]

I don't know what kind of water you have in your area, but I installed a shower filter that filters 99% of chlorine in water and that helps me with dry skin and burning eyes caused by cholorine in water.

 

[eytonxav]

At my age the last thing I want to do is undermine anything horny. But to skipping showers, how? On weight days I lift am, row pm. On all other days, I row twice. I keep the radiator off, and open up the windows, but exercise just makes you hot. I really can't get behind going around dirty. I am hoping that a better soap and one of these lotions will do the trick.

I know I have probably not been too kind to my skin, I love a hot shower after a workout, and i like back brushes and abrasive devices to get all the sweat off.

Remember, cleanliness is next to godliness.

May be you need a French girl friend, they wouldn't mind the not showering part

 

[Sarah in SC]

You certainly didn't. I can't speak for Don. Also, there was a heavy layer of dust covering everything and everybody, which may have acted to wick away the perspiration (see below, from your own collection). Also, mostly all I could smell was the beer on my breath. But you're right, it doesn't seem to matter when you're listening to good music and having fun. Ha, on the other hand, is acting civilized and trying to impress the ladies, who probably don't have quite the same sensibilities we do.

For the record, those are NOT MY CARNEY FEET!

 

[TN_INVEST]

On more than one occasion, i have been known to simply shower without soap.

Regarding lotion, I use the Neutrogena stuff on my face just about every day.

Bert Reynolds swears by Vaseline

 

[mh]

Use simple soap ((Kirk's Castile ?), only use soap on portions of body subject to smelling bad.

is use this (castile type soap) as both soap and shampoo.
they have it at whole foods amongst other places
don't need much if it and it doesn't leave anything in the way of scum
or deposits in the shower either.


Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps Retail Store: Citrus Liquid Soap

 

[chemist]

I am a retired surfactant chemist. There is some substance to the Dove claims - the 1/4 cleansing cream claim is crap (it is 25% stearic acid which is just the acid form of soap - soap is sodium stearate). So that is just marketing garbage.

But the other 75% is sodium cocoylisethionate which is way milder than soap as it is more or less neutral pH whereas soap is highly alkaline.

FWIW most liquid body washes are also based on isethionate. Why they are so popular in europe I don't know - perhaps due to mildness.

Technically Dove and its competitors are known as "syndet bars". I believe they are significantly milder than soap.

 

[ls99]

I am a retired surfactant chemist.

Mind if I ask a question? I've heard the expression surfactant, what makes a substance as such and how does it accomplish that.

Guessing at some form a of lubrication to break the bond between dirt and substrate. It has been a nagging question in my mind for years.

Thanks.

 

[TromboneAl]

On a related issue, once we work our way through our huge stock-up backlog of Lever 2000 soap from Costco, we will probably go to either body wash or Irish Spring since neither of those contribute to soap scum in the shower.

 

[omni550]

On a somewhat-related and humorous note...

Due to Jobs' recent passing, I've been reading a lot of Steve Jobs articles. While in his 20's, Steve had read that meat-eaters exude body odor. So he went on a 100% apple diet, thinking that he would not have to bathe/shower. After some time on this 'diet', he got some very strong feedback from the guys he was working with, indicating that yes, he DID have to shower as he was getting quite 'stinky'.

 

[chemist]

Mind if I ask a question? I've heard the expression surfactant, what makes a substance as such and how does it accomplish that.

Guessing at some form a of lubrication to break the bond between dirt and substrate. It has been a nagging question in my mind for years.

Thanks.

The term "surfactant" is an abbreviation of "surface active agent". Generally speaking it is a molecule with one part that is hydrophobic (water hating) and one part that is hydrophilic (water loving). So soap which is the sodium salt of a long chain fatty acid is a surfactant - the fatty part is insoluble in water and the salt at the end is water soluble. These molecules reduce the interfacial tension between oil and water and allow fatty and particulate soils to be removed from substrates.

Hope that made sense. It is not really lubrication but a way to lower the amount of energy required to break the attraction of dirt to substrate.

 

[LOL!]

Scrubbing to get sweat off? That's the problem. Even if sweat dries on your skin, a little bit of water dissolves the salt and away it goes. You don't need to use soap at all.

I learned from NPR that the Romans used a strigil to remove sweat. Maybe that would be sufficient for you?

 

[TromboneAl]

I learned from NPR that the Romans used a strigil to remove sweat. Maybe that would be sufficient for you?

Interesting:

And here's a family using strigils:

That illustration was taken from a decal that the Romans used on the backs of their chariots.

 

[ls99]

The term "surfactant" is an abbreviation of "surface active agent". Generally speaking it is a molecule with one part that is hydrophobic (water hating) and one part that is hydrophilic (water loving). So soap which is the sodium salt of a long chain fatty acid is a surfactant - the fatty part is insoluble in water and the salt at the end is water soluble. These molecules reduce the interfacial tension between oil and water and allow fatty and particulate soils to be removed from substrates.

Hope that made sense. It is not really lubrication but a way to lower the amount of energy required to break the attraction of dirt to substrate.

Thank you.

Took a couple of readings to get it. Had to look up a few words. Techie and mechanics are easy for me, chemistry is black magic. Will work on the long chain fatty acid understanding.

 

[Amethyst]

1. Second T-Al's suggestion: Work out once per day, not twice. Working out twice a day means you're either starring in an action movie where you have to be extremely buff, or you have time to kill. OK, I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the ones that come to mind And no, I am not laughing at the idea that you might be in an action movie.

2. Pat yourself dry with towel - do not rub. Patting sounds wimpy, but your skin will thank you.

3. Honestly - do you have such an odor concern that you must shower each and every time you perspire? Don't laugh, odor could be partly your imagination - Americans are brainwashed from childhood to fear they may be "offending" others via body odor. This fear sells many products. Anyway, people do differ in the odor dept. Maybe all you need is bath powder (corn starch + talcum) for the second perspiration of the day.

4. Finally - in wintertime, I get very itchy shoulders and shoulder blades, because the skin there is thinner and dryer than elsewhere. I rub in some unscented almond oil (sold for massage use) and the itch clears right up. The oil soaks in and doesn't feel oily at all. So there is something else to try.

Amethyst

 

[W2R]

Scrubbing to get sweat off? That's the problem. Even if sweat dries on your skin, a little bit of water dissolves the salt and away it goes. You don't need to use soap at all.

I like "LOL!"'s idea. Unless guys' sweat contains a lot more oils than ours does, water should remove it, right? You could save the soap for one shower a day, preferably the shower right before a heavy date.

 

[haha]

1. Second T-Al's suggestion: Work out once per day, not twice. Working out twice a day means you're either starring in an action movie where you have to be extremely buff, or you have time to kill. OK, I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the ones that come to mind And no, I am not laughing at the idea that you might be in an action movie.

I'll tell you a story about how I came to settle on rowing 2x/day, and walking or dancing to add a bit to this.

When I was born, my maternal grandfather was 77. By the time I could hang around with him on the farm I must have been 4 or so, so he was ~81. He ran a large mixed farm, by himself except during haying and corn harvest. Did all his own plowing, (with horses!) He was slim and wiry and extemely strong. In no way did he seem like an old man. If I do two 45-60' rowing sessions, I will still likely be doing less than 20% of his daily output. To me this seems a reasonable, perhaps even a completely wimpy goal.

Also, my physique is improving in ways that I like.

So I want to try to figure out the shower stuff, rather than cut back on my output.

I may be completely wrong, but I believe that we middle class people are not normally active enough.

As to BO, I don't think I have any unusual difficulty. But I really do not like to offend with my body, so I am careful.

I think the minimal soap idea advanced by W2R and others likely has promise. But I had about 60 years of looking forward to being really clean after working hard and getting sweaty, so it is challenging for me to change. I must do it though, I am not enjoying this itching at all.

And I really appreciate all the suggestions!

Ha

 

[W2R]

I may be completely wrong, but I believe that we middle class people are not normally active enough.

Not to hijack the thread, but I couldn't agree more! Most of us need so much more exercise than we normally get (IMO). If you feel like working out twice a day, and it works for you, I think that is great.

 

[TromboneAl]

As in the camping thread, there may be something magical about the amount of "non-sitting time."

I wonder how often Granddad showered.

 

[REWahoo]

I wonder how often Granddad showered.

Once a day for this one.

 

[haha]

I visited my dermatologist today, as I was still itching and inflamed. He told me what you guys did- I'm too old to shower with soap 2x/day. He says once we hit 40 it is downhill for skin, and soap, esp the wrong soap, hot water, rough brushes or loofahs etc just make it worse.

I wish I could put my machine outside and stay cool, but I'll just do a quick rinse off instead. I tried Al's idea of just rowing once daily- what I found is that I just continue to row twice, and double my time. I may just have a certin amount of nervous energy that has to be expended. It was easy before, as I like to walk around. But my distance is now limited by my hip/back- today I went to Uwajimaya and walked about 6 miles. I was fine still I got home and stopped, but then it was out with the ice pack.

Everything he said agreed completely with the suggestions here, so you guys are very smart about skin, and I was pretty stupid about skin.

Ha