Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Retire early, die early?
Old 03-25-2014, 05:48 AM   #1
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 245
Retire early, die early?

I'm a little concerned over the "results" of this study posted on WebMD. Although they don't really offer much in the way of speculated causes. Perhaps the group they studied retired early due to health reasons?

Retire Early, Die Early
LakeTravis is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-25-2014, 06:06 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
If I die early, it will probably be from the chain saw getting away from me or falling off the cabin while building it. I will be doing a lot more physically demanding work at least through 65 in retirement than while employed.

I'll be happy to take my chances.
Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 06:09 AM   #3
Moderator
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,199
Doesn't the last sentence in that 2005 article contradict its headline?

Quote:
Retiring at 65 was not associated with a greater risk of mortality than retiring at 55 or 60
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 06:15 AM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeTravis View Post
I'm a little concerned over the "results" of this study posted on WebMD. Although they don't really offer much in the way of speculated causes. Perhaps the group they studied retired early due to health reasons?
That has always been the achilles heel of studies like these. Because some people who retire early do so because of medical problems (or maybe they were already dying when they "retired", such as a terminal cancer diagnosis), early retirement and early demise are not "independent events" and so, perhaps more than ever, correlation does not equal causation.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 06:19 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeTravis View Post
I'm a little concerned over the "results" of this study posted on WebMD. Although they don't really offer much in the way of speculated causes. Perhaps the group they studied retired early due to health reasons?
+1

There have been a number of threads discussing this dating back to when it was first published in 2005. One of them quotes this from the study footnotes:

Quote:
The study could not assess directly the issue of whether employees who retired at a younger age were in poorer health than those who retired later as data were not available to identify the type of retirement for each employee (for example, retirement due to disability compared with normal retirement).
http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post341814
__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:15 AM   #6
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,586
That study sure has generated lots of discussion over the years. Here is a link Age at retirement and long term survival of an industrial population: prospective cohort study | BMJ

The author's conclusions are based on a group of 839 employees who retired early (age 55) between 1973 and 2003. Makes me wonder if there wasn't an effort to push people in poor or failing health out the door early. A study on mortality rates without considering health?
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:21 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,495
When I see these threads it reminds me of an extreme example I saw of the "If you retire you'll die!" In my first municipal job on the first few days I had to accompany a 40 year employee to mayor's office to receive his "pin." Under that system you really didn't "earn" anything at that point; mights as well take pension and go elsewhere. He insisted that to retire meant early death.

We kept him around (he really was an archive of good information) even after he started to fail, had bladder cancer. I think he died after ~56 years of employment there. Not sure exact circumstances as I had left a year or two before. It was just the classic example of taking the opposite of ER to the extreme. And it was pretty sad the last five years or so. So I guess he could be held as an example of work facilitated longevity; hardly a "life" I'd care to emulate.
H2ODude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:26 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
The good news is, if you die early you have a better chance of your money lasting
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 75% Equity Funds / 15% Bonds / 5% Stable Value /2% Cash / 3% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:29 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
That study sure has generated lots of discussion over the years. Here is a link Age at retirement and long term survival of an industrial population: prospective cohort study | BMJ

The author's conclusions are based on a group of 839 employees who retired early (age 55) between 1973 and 2003. Makes me wonder if there wasn't an effort to push people in poor or failing health out the door early. A study on mortality rates without considering health?
True. I don't see in any of these studies a measure of
- Did people choose to retire early, or where they forced to retire (e.g. being laid off while eligible for retirement)
- If they choose to retire early, was it for their own health, or perhaps for something else stressful (e.g. taking care of sick parents)
- Their financial situation at early retirement (someone not FI might likely develop illnesses due to financial stress/pressures)

Someone I can't see someone who is FI and chooses to retire early for non-health reasons (other than job stress perhaps), and being able to choose what they want to do, not having better odds for a longer life.
__________________
FIREd date: June 26, 2018 - "This Happy Feeling, Going Round and Round!" (GQ)
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 07:42 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
That has always been the achilles heel of studies like these. Because some people who retire early do so because of medical problems (or maybe they were already dying when they "retired", such as a terminal cancer diagnosis), early retirement and early demise are not "independent events" and so, perhaps more than ever, correlation does not equal causation.
+1.

I bet WebMD looked at my own parents. My mom retired, if you can call it that, at age 55 when she got diagnosed with cancer. She really left her company, one she had been working at for only 4 years, on disability. She died a month before she turned 60.

My dad, meanwhile, retired for real at age 63. That was nearly 20 years ago and he is still alive and well at age 83.

I retired for real 5 years ago at age 45. I guess by WebMD's standards, I should have died a few years ago LOL!
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 09:47 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,204
There have been countless articles suggesting retirement improves longevity and countless others showing just the opposite, often authored by someone who doesn't grasp the variables to begin with.

I'd guess it has little to do with early retirement.
  • People who retire and maintain their health, social connections and/or satisfying activities probably live as long on average as those who retire later.
  • People who retire and improve their health, social connections and/or enjoy more engaging activities (than work) probably live longer on average than those who retire later.
  • And people who retire and lead a sedentary, unhealthy, isolated life with few activities probably have shorter lifespans on average than those who retire later.
The linked study simply tells me that sadly too many people fall into the latter category, which is something worth knowing. But "early" is not necessarily the cause.

And as another member noted, many who retire early do so for health reasons, so they're part of a self-selecting group. Their experience doesn't provide any insight for healthy retirees.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
The good news is, if you die early you have a better chance of your money lasting
Isn't that reassuring?
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:11 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
The good news is, if you die early you have a better chance of your money lasting
I still like to die earlier.
robnplunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:28 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
This study has been reviewed several times since it was published almost 8 years ago. The bottom line is that correlation does not imply causation. A cohort study cannot prove causation.
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 11:51 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
38Chevy454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 4,354
I'll take my chances with ER vs staying working! Working meaning employed in a job, not meaning working around the house and garage. I believe the key to any longevity question is how you take care of your health. Ignore your health or have bad habits and lifestyle choices, you tend to die sooner. ER also provides a lower stress level for most, and high stress has always been detrimental to longevity.
__________________
The problem isn't artificial intelligence, it's natural stupidity.

You can't spend yourself to prosperity.

Semi-Retired 7/1/16: working part-time (60%) for now [4/24/17 changed to 80%]
Retired Aug 2, 2017; age 53
38Chevy454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:19 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,745
+1

ER and live longer - that'd be REs proper response to the study. Of late, I have become convinced that my current job's stress is shortening my life. Additional rich being accumulated is good but not at the expense dying earlier.
robnplunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:27 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 5,638
My uncle had a heart attack at age 48, so he chose to retire. He celebrates his 90th birthday later this year. Early retirement isn't a death sentence. It's what you do with your life that matters more.
Dash man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:27 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnplunder View Post
I still like to die earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnplunder View Post
+1

ER and live longer - that'd be REs proper response to the study. Of late, I have become convinced that my current job's stress is shortening my life. Additional rich being accumulated is good but not at the expense dying earlier.
robnplunder,
You are confusing me.
Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:00 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,745
"I still like to die earlier" <--- It's my attempt to say that I want to RE.

I have OMY syndrome. While I work, I am padding my RE fund. But I suspect it is shortening my life due to work related stress.

I hadn't my 3rd cup of coffee today ....
robnplunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 01:06 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnplunder View Post
... I hadn't my 3rd cup of coffee today ....
That explains everything!
Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I may not retire early, but I'll retire ready Socal Tom Hi, I am... 9 03-04-2014 11:00 PM
Retire Early And Die Later novaman Health and Early Retirement 3 09-04-2013 04:55 PM
46 - may not retire early - hope to retire well psyprof Hi, I am... 8 02-18-2013 04:50 PM
Can You Retire Before You Die? wanaberetiree FIRE and Money 13 08-08-2011 05:47 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:47 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.