Retirement Happiness Article

[Huston55]

At the risk of diverting this thread's focus from $$$, the article also emphasized a harmonious relationship.

Our personal experience, 3 yrs into FIRE, has been that the relationship takes at least as much work as the financial bit; sometimes more. DW & I do have a good relationship and, we even attended a pre-retirement workshop which focused mostly on the non-financial aspects of FIRE; many good tools from that workshop. But, we also have different interests so, we find it takes some effort align our activities & calendars.

Esposa feliz, vida feliz!

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 But these issues don't come up until >$11M for a couple (US), way higher than the $3.5M "happiness peak" the author found in his research. Couples with $5M, $8M, even $10M can still happily use the Vanguard five-fund approach. And seriously, with those higher funds, you can hire people to take care of the hassle aspects if you like. You don't have to figure it all in your own.

True, but I think you have to manage how money is inherited to spouses to shield the total $11M exemption from estate taxes (the person with more than $3.5M may see that grow to above the current $5.49M limit), which is a hassle in itself. And if I have to hire someone to take care of the hassle aspects, that adds a lot of stress right there--figuring out who to hire, overseeing what they are doing, trusting that they are not a Bernie Madoff....

Obviously you and I have different takes on this, but I can see why people with more than $3.5M report less happiness than people below that level. And it enables me to say the comforting to us who don't see ourselves as rich, but usually not at all true cliche, "Sure they're rich, but are they happy?"

[Dash man]

I don't think anyone can put a dollar figure on happiness. I've seen poor people with nothing that I envy because of the love in their family and the support they give each other. I've seen rich that I don't want to be around because they're so miserable. And you can switch that around.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash man I don't think anyone can put a dollar figure on happiness. I've seen poor people with nothing that I envy because of the love in their family and the support they give each other. I've seen rich that I don't want to be around because they're so miserable. And you can switch that around.

+1. Happiness is a very personal thing. Wealth, health, relationships, spirituality, personality, attitude, and more all come into play. That's why I find articles about happiness can only be useful in the abstract. Trying to make them proscriptive seems like a mistake. At least to me.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever True, but I think you have to manage how money is inherited to spouses to shield the total $11M exemption from estate taxes (the person with more than $3.5M may see that grow to above the current $5.49M limit), which is a hassle in itself. And if I have to hire someone to take care of the hassle aspects, that adds a lot of stress right there--figuring out who to hire, overseeing what they are doing, trusting that they are not a Bernie Madoff.... Obviously you and I have different takes on this, but I can see why people with more than $3.5M report less happiness than people below that level. And it enables me to say the comforting to us who don't see ourselves as rich, but usually not at all true cliche, "Sure they're rich, but are they happy?"

I'm not arguing that folks with more money might not have more stress.

I was arguing with the theory that was due to managing a larger portfolio. I think there are other good possible explanations, and I gave one: more funds encouraging lifestyle creep which adds complexity. But an individual/couple can choose to avoid that complexity, it's not a life sentence just because you're "rich".

I just don't buy it that a couple with $5M or $7M is necessarily invested any different than a couple with $3.5M. Their assets finally exceed $3.5M and they say - OMG we've got to change everything about how we're investing!!! More likely they smile and keep on investing the same way. They might start to spend a bit more.

[unclemick]

Time is our most precious commodity.

Portfolio and 'STUFF' in the late George Carlin sense. I put my portfolio on full auto 2006 ala a Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 and generally went to sleep on my 'few good stocks' for play purposes. The widow I married almost 4 years ago came with two pensions, SS, 4 taxable funds, an IRA, a 401k, a variable annuity and a farm jointly owned with her Brother now deceased.

So we must carve out time as time goes by to UN-STUFF and consolidate. We prefer to stay in the wing flapping romance zone.

Discipline sucks.

heh heh heh - One more thing. Success means I made it over 70 1/2 and I 'love' to whine about my Pals at the IRS when the RMD tax calculation arrives each year. . 2017 will 40 years of time in the Market for my original Bogle's Folly index fund purchase. Ya gotta love componding.

[ejman]

Congratulations Unclemick! Let's see 40 years of componding of an initial $3,000 investment in 1977 in Vanguards Index 500 fund would have grown to about $200,880 as of 12/31/16 assuming no money taken out or additional investments put in. The magic of componding indeed! Compounding works out real well too

[Souschef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman Congratulations Unclemick! Let's see 40 years of componding of an initial $3,000 investment in 1977 in Vanguards Index 500 fund would have grown to about $200,880 as of 12/31/16 assuming no money taken out or additional investments put in. The magic of compounding indeed! Compounding works out real well too

I doesn't have to even be 40 years. I rolled over my 401k in2009, and it has grown at a compounded rate of 17%

[Scuba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 OK - I don't get this. Why would managing say $5M, $8M, or $10M be any more stressful than $3.5M? I just don't see the difference. I think this is someone's opinion (imagination). In fact, as our retirement assets have grown to exceed what we need for income and possible emergencies, the stress of managing investments has dropped slightly. If we have another nasty bear, the absolute impact should not be as bad because the portfolio grew before the hit. Money management is something that scales very easily - you can keep using the same techniques as the pile grows. And guess what - you have to become a "wealth manager" in retirement whether or not you have "way more than enough" as long as you have investments you want to make last. I suspect the major stress lowering comes when all income needs are covered by guaranteed income streams (pension/annuity/social security) AND you have guaranteed affordable health care (retiree healthcare/Medicare with Medigap covered). Then managing any additional investments is not so critical. But this has nothing to do with the size of any additional investments. Now if someone argued that lifestyle creep tended to make life more complex, and thus a bit more stressful, once folks' net worth exceeded some magic number, I would buy that argument. The solution is easy - be careful about your lifestyle creep - make sure the additional complexity is adding to your happiness, not subtracting from it. Lifestyle creep can definitely happen unconsciously (just like while working), so someone has to be aware to manage their lifestyle to reduce stress/increase happiness. "OMG, we have to fly first class again?!?! I'm hating this!!!!"

+1
Well said!