Richer = healthier?

[bclover]

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Originally Posted by harley I'll buy the fast food is cheaper argument, and maybe the no time to prepare healthy food (nope, never mind, I don't), but the urban food desert thing is totally bogus. I've never been in a major city where you can't find a decent grocery store, even if you have to hop on a bus to do it. It's not like Escape from New York where they've got a fence and land mines to keep people in. People move throughout their cities, and although the rich people might not go into the poor areas too often poor people go into the middle class areas all the time. Usually they work there. Heck, I have to go 5 miles or so to get to the nearest grocery store. I must live in a rural food desert! Oh noes!

I guess you've never been to camden nj. there is no grocery store here period. and sorry "hopping" on a bus as you call it is NOT that easy. first of all its not free and its not like nyc where buses and trains run every 10 mind. In Philly where I live the nearest grocery store that is not a upscale grocer (whole foods or Wegmans) is over 5 miles And would take 2 buses to get to. so ok, I get on 2 buses exactly how much food am I carrying?? So now I bring a kid along to possibly help?? whoa, extra bus fare

And yes it can be like escape from NY if you've got to skip over a major highway.

You eat better when healthy food is accessible, 45 minutes to get to a grocery store is not what I call accessible

[ERhoosier]

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Originally Posted by samclem Sometimes (not always), economic prosperity results from making good choices. And delaying gratification for a more important later goal. Those attributes are also consistent with maintaining good health. Example: smoking is associated with low income and poor health. I'd guess that these underlying personality traits are more important than wealth>>good health or good health >>wealth.

And the converse is also true. Poor choices may lead to poorer health (and less wealth). It's not just smoking/heavy drinking/drugs, but also simple things like taking prescribed medicines for chronic illness. Even amongst those with access to basically free care (Medicaid in US), many studies show those who are "noncompliant" with their treatments tend to have poorer health. Money is only part of the issue. Many examples of once rich folks engaging in very self-destructive behaviors that eventually made them sick and poor.

[photoguy]

USDA has a mapping tool to highlight food deserts:

USDA ERS - Go to the Atlas

I found it interesting to put in cities where I've lived. I was surprised by Los Angeles that much less of the city is a food desert (Low Income + Low Access at 1 mile) than I would have thought. But I'm not really sure if the definition is good.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by M Paquette My word! I simply don't know how you could get by in such a state!

I don't know how I managed either. That's it! I am doomed. I have always thought that my life expectancy is not going to be as long as many posters here who plan to live into the 90s, if not past 100. Now I know why. I have no personal trainer, no chef and always cook for myself, and even have to clean my own toilet.

I am toastally doomed! Is there a way I can pamper myself now to remedy the situation? Or is the process irreversible, and it's too late?

[PhrugalPhan]

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Originally Posted by photoguy USDA has a mapping tool to highlight food deserts: USDA ERS - Go to the Atlas I found it interesting to put in cities where I've lived. I was surprised by Los Angeles that much less of the city is a food desert (Low Income + Low Access at 1 mile) than I would have thought. But I'm not really sure if the definition is good.

I feel the definition is bad too. Plus, I checked locally to me and it showed a large swath of LI +LA at 1 mile near me. Yet literally across the street from this stretch of LI/LA is a major Hispanic "supermercado". And on the other side less than a mile away from this store is an Aldi's. There is no way that should be labeled as a food desert. I'm sure there are other locations like that as well.

[samclem]

And I guess the USDA's assumption is that these people never leave their homes to go to work, do other shopping, visit friends, do business with the government, etc--every trip to get food must be a special-purpose trip from their home.

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound I am toastally doomed! Is there a way I can pamper myself now to remedy the situation? Or is the process irreversible, and it's too late?

Yup. Might as well turn on the gas.

Wait. Go buy a Corvette or something first.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem And I guess the USDA's assumption is that these people never leave their homes to go to work, do other shopping, visit friends, do business with the government, etc--every trip to get food must be a special-purpose trip from their home.

This whole thing is just some redistributionist's wet dream. You should see the food carriers that people are pulling around up here. Way more than I could comfortably carry on my back, but I have no car either and I can carry all I need on my back.

I wonder just how many so-called poor people don't own or have access to a car anyway?

This morning I decided to see if Costco has the California sourced extra-virgin olive oil that was mentioned in a thread here 4-6 weeks ago.. So I walked downtown, took a bus to Costco (along with 4-5 older ladies who were also bus-bound Costco shoppers.) No California olive oil, but I did buy some avocado oil and some Italian oil with source and vintage on the bottle. Maybe this gives a bit more security, as it is at least traceable. Since I haven't done an oil haul before, I decided to go light, and bought 6 liters in glass bottles. Did 50 deep knee bends while waiting for a bus back to Pike Place, then walked the hill going home. No big deal at all.
Want to know a food desert? Downtown, where condos start around a million $.

Ha

[LinCella]

My health is my own responsibility and I have t admit I fall short. I'm not rich by any means but have been blessed with my old employer paying for my medical insurance. It is a great medical insurance and I'm happy. If I had to buy it on my own, on the exchange, I would be buying the lowest possible coverage because I still have to buy food, pay rent, etc. and I would not be getting as good of care. Im diabetic and pleased that my present insurance covers all my diabetes supplies and meds 100%. With lesser coverage I would not be able to afford an insulin pump, a continuous glucose monitor - all of which keep me in good stead.

As for Whole Foods, I go there every once and awhile and always kick myself when leaving as I would have ended up paying twice what I would have paid at Safeway. I have friends who shop there exclusively and yes, they are wealthier by far than me but no healthier.

[Helen]

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Originally Posted by haha This whole thing is just some redistributionist's wet dream. You should see the food carriers that people are pulling around up here. Way more than I could comfortably carry on my back, but I have no car either and I can carry all I need on my back. I wonder just how many so-called poor people don't own or have access to a car anyway? This morning I decided to see if Costco has the California sourced extra-virgin olive oil that was mentioned in a thread here 4-6 weeks ago.. So I walked downtown, took a bus to Costco (along with 4-5 older ladies who were also bus-bound Costco shoppers.) No California olive oil, but I did buy some avocado oil and some Italian oil with source and vintage on the bottle. Maybe this gives a bit more security, as it is at least traceable. Since I haven't done an oil haul before, I decided to go light, and bought 6 liters in glass bottles. Did 50 deep knee bends while waiting for a bus back to Pike Place, then walked the hill going home. No big deal at all. Want to know a food desert? Downtown, where condos start around a million $. Ha

I think there are plenty of poor people who don't have access to a car. There is no way someone making minimum wage or a little above could afford a car, even if the car was given to them.

It's one thing to shop for one person when you have plenty of free time in retirement. It's another thing to have a low paying, physically demanding, full time job and a family to shop for.

My spouse and I do a lot of errands without using our car. We enjoy it, but we notice how much more time it takes to complete our tasks. And, when we do the big shopping trips we always drive, we couldn't carry our food by foot or public transportation.

[haha]

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Originally Posted by Helen I think there are plenty of poor people who don't have access to a car. There is no way someone making minimum wage or a little above could afford a car, even if the car was given to them. It's one thing to shop for one person when you have plenty of free time in retirement. It's another thing to have a low paying, physically demanding, full time job and a family to shop for. My spouse and I do a lot of errands without using our car. We enjoy it, but we notice how much more time it takes to complete our tasks. And, when we do the big shopping trips we always drive, we couldn't carry our food by foot or public transportation.

I would never say that cars may not be handier in many ways, Also, I know that not everyone has a car. For example, I don't.

It would be interesting to know how many people who are getting some form of social support- who presumably are poor people by some accepted definition- have a car or have ready access to one. I don't know the answer to this, just as I didn't in the thread above. But it seems like it would definitely bear on this food desert idea.

This sort of data seems not to be high on the lists of those who might benefit in one way or another by publicizing the food desert..

It may be easier to sell food to SNAP card holders than to the typical tight as a drum LBYM'ers!

Ha

[Moemg]

Have you ever peeked into other people's food carts ? I have and the poorer they look the worse the food is . There is no decent food in their carts just crap . IMO a basic food course should be mandatory for food stamp receipents .

[Which Roger]

The title of this thread is "Richer = healthier?" but it could also be "Healthier = richer?". If you're sick, you're not going to have the energy that it takes to climb to the top of the income scale, and you're not going to get that promotion if you're staying home sick.

[Philliefan33]

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Originally Posted by Moemg Have you ever peeked into other people's food carts ? I have and the poorer they look the worse the food is . There is no decent food in their carts just crap . IMO a basic food course should be mandatory for food stamp receipents .

Education might help, but sometimes it just comes down to economics. If a mom is trying to stretch her paycheck (even when supplemented by SNAP) she is looking for cheap things to fill bellies. For $0.99, she can get a package of store-brand "Oreos" that will be a whole week of after-school snacks for her two kids. Or, for that same $0.99, she can get a pound of apples when they are on sale. What's that, about 3 apples, four at the most? That will only last two days.

I do play a variation of the "peek in other people's cart" game. I notice that obese people have crap in the cart, but carts filled with fresh fruits and vegetables tend to be pushed by people with smaller pant sizes.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliefan33 Education might help, but sometimes it just comes down to economics. If a mom is trying to stretch her paycheck (even when supplemented by SNAP) she is looking for cheap things to fill bellies. For $0.99, she can get a package of store-brand "Oreos" that will be a whole week of after-school snacks for her two kids. Or, for that same $0.99, she can get a pound of apples when they are on sale. What's that, about 3 apples, four at the most? That will only last two days. I do play a variation of the "peek in other people's cart" game. I notice that obese people have crap in the cart, but carts filled with fresh fruits and vegetables tend to be pushed by people with smaller pant sizes.

You can also tell the single folks by checking out their cart.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliefan33 Education might help, but sometimes it just comes down to economics. If a mom is trying to stretch her paycheck (even when supplemented by SNAP) she is looking for cheap things to fill bellies. For $0.99, she can get a package of store-brand "Oreos" that will be a whole week of after-school snacks for her two kids. Or, for that same $0.99, she can get a pound of apples when they are on sale. What's that, about 3 apples, four at the most? That will only last two days. I do play a variation of the "peek in other people's cart" game. I notice that obese people have crap in the cart, but carts filled with fresh fruits and vegetables tend to be pushed by people with smaller pant sizes.

I was thinking about this thread when I went grocery shopping this afternoon. We are positing that poor people walk or take the bus. So on a bus should be a sampling of poor people, including yours truly. So why do some of these poor people, the Asians, weigh about 90 pounds, and others, the non-Asians, weigh about 190 or 290 pounds?

If I ever get poorer than I already am, I want to be Asian.

Ha

[marko]

"Don't believe them when they tell me
'There ain't no cure'
The rich stay healthy
The sick stay poor"

"God Part 2" U2

[spring-chicken2015]

I like to look at it the other way.

Health is wealth!