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Old 11-23-2014, 08:40 AM   #21
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Actually, I think you may have helped me make my point.

I ask "Why do you believe X?"
The answer I get is "Because many educated people tell me that X."

And that may be perfectly fine, but the argument from authority doesn't induce me to believe it.

Anyway, this is an argument that could go on for a long time, so I'll just drop it.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:46 AM   #22
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I can see BACON on the horizon!

Take that Bacon from the horizon and put some on your plate
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:47 AM   #23
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Spoiler alert: everyone dies.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:16 AM   #24
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The question is "when..." so, everyone's looking for the magic answer that will somehow allow them to eat exactly what they want, while not increasing their risk!

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the scene in Woody Allen's 1973 movie "Sleeper" where Woody wakes up in the future, and steak, butter and eggs are considered good for you.

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Old 11-23-2014, 09:48 AM   #25
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The key is that everybody is different. And that one needs to eat healthy foods whether or not one is taking a statin or not, eating vegan or not, eating low carb or not, eating paleo or not. etc.

The mistake made with low-fat was that people were lured into thinking that low-fat in and of itself was good, even if the low-fat food was loaded with sugar and other highly processed carbs. A low-fat, low cholesterol Frankenfood was deemed better than a real food like an egg.

There was a time when certain sugar bomb cereals actually had a healthy for the heart label from a leading heart health organization. This despite the fact they were loaded with sugar and highly processed carbs. I believe the label was removed in 2010, IIRC.

Is Cocoa Puffs no longer heart healthy?

Nobody bothered to check how substituting highly processed carbs for fat would affect human health.

Personally, I ate high-transfat margarine for decades because I was told it was healthier than real butter. Nobody bothered to check on transfats and I trusted the 'experts'. Transfats ended up being in the opinion of many worse than the saturated fats. Not so good.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:59 AM   #26
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Take that Bacon from the horizon and put some on your plate
Although presently I seldom eat it due to overweight, I absolutely *love* bacon! If I had any here at home, I'd do just exactly that.
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File Type: jpg sms-630-bacon-plate-shutterstock-630w.jpg (10.3 KB, 347 views)
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:27 AM   #27
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FWIW, here is a list of "Academic studies questioning current dietary advice":

Academic studies questioning current dietary advice

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For your convenience, here’s a list of peer reviewed studies and journal articles, challenging current dietary advice, since March 2013.

The papers are listed in reverse chronological order and I’ll try to keep this updated. Please post a comment with those I’ve missed and I’ll update.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:03 AM   #28
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Of all the advise I have recently read on dietary needs, the best quote came from one dietician who said, "When you go to the store and pick up a package to read the ingredients, and it has a list of ingredients, don't buy it!" There is a lot of wisdom in that quote. My wife and I always hit the produce section first, then meat (mainly fish and chicken), then pick up the few necessities (like coffee and almond milk). Then to the checkout stand we fly. Avoid all those chip and cracker isles if you can, along with most of the canned goods. Its tough to do, but if we go as a team, there is usually one of us who remains strong to avoid the ice cream section.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:06 AM   #29
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Personally, I ate high-transfat margarine for decades because I was told it was healthier than real butter. Nobody bothered to check on transfats and I trusted the 'experts'. Transfats ended up being in the opinion of many worse than the saturated fats. Not so good.
I grew up eating margarine. I'm pretty sure we ate it because it was cheaper than margarine.

When I got to college one of my roommates was appalled when I bought some margarine and introduced me to real butter. Yum!

I've never looked back.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:59 AM   #30
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LDL combined with arterial inflammation causes heart disease. The problem is, we're targeting the wrong thing. Eliminate inflammation by limiting sugars and processed foods and lowering your body fat, and your cholesterol (LDL or HDL) doesn't really matter at all.
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:31 PM   #31
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My total cholesterol has risen since I've been exercising and eating less sugar - it's up to 230. I was afraid my Dr. would put me on statins, but she says my HDL ratio is favorable (HDL is 84) and I should keep up the workouts. So that is a Dr.'s opinion which seems to bear out what you are saying.

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LDL combined with arterial inflammation causes heart disease. The problem is, we're targeting the wrong thing. Eliminate inflammation by limiting sugars and processed foods and lowering your body fat, and your cholesterol (LDL or HDL) doesn't really matter at all.
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:22 PM   #32
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Here are the thoughts of one doctor:

Of particular interest to me (more than his personal opinion) are the results of several recent studies.

The Year of the Fat

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Government dietary fat recommendations were untested in any trial prior to being introduced

Dietary recommendations were introduced for 220 million US and 56 million UK citizens by 1983, in the absence of supporting evidence from randomized clinical trials

The present review concludes that dietary advice not merely needs review; it should not have been introduced
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Guideline writers should acknowledge the lack of evidence for most recommendations and write shorter guidelines. They should stick to hard evidence. Who needs hundreds of pages of expert consensus? The public deserves to be guided by real science.
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:44 PM   #33
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I posted this at Dietary Cholesterol Concerns Reversed After 40 Years but see that it is also a good (even better?) fit here.

Saturated fat & CHD in Europe

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... for all 192 countries in the world, for men and women, for CVD deaths and all-cause mortality, the HIGHER the cholesterol levels, the LOWER the death rate; the LOWER the cholesterol levels, the HIGHER the death rate. The Pearson correlation coefficient gets higher as we move from male CVD deaths to female CVD deaths to male all deaths to female all deaths.

This blog repeats the exercise of examining the association between heart disease (this time CHD) and an accused causal agent (this time saturated fat).
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:49 PM   #34
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I keep asking this, but I never get an answer.
Why do people see low LDL as a good thing?

Sure, statins (and a few other things) can effectively lower your LDL reading. So what?

In fact, I know one primary care doctor who focuses like a laser on the LDL reading and ignores most others.

I don't know of a single reputable scientific resource that shows a harmful health outcome from high LDL (or high total cholesterol for that matter).
Most doctors are behind the times on this. The old LDL test is pretty useless (same thing with total cholesterol). The test you need to get is the LDL-P test, which breaks down LDL particle size. That can provide some clues as to your risk for heart disease, along with triglycerides and HDL (and CRP, which measures inflammation in the body). Here is one article on LDL-P......you can easily find others if you Google it:

The Diet-Heart Myth: Why Everyone Should Know Their LDL Particle Number
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Old 07-11-2015, 10:43 AM   #35
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This video from an MD in Public Health is very interesting. He is very critical of the outdated 'health' labels and advice we have been getting.

https://rosemarycottageclinic.wordpr...-dietary-fats/
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:39 AM   #36
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This video from an MD in Public Health is very interesting. He is very critical of the outdated 'health' labels and advice we have been getting.

https://rosemarycottageclinic.wordpr...-dietary-fats/
It's going to be a long time before this message overcomes the previous decades of misinformation.

Also, the food companies need to catch up. For example, try finding "regular yogurt" in most stores. They are filled with 0% or low fat products that have added sugar to the exclusion of actual yogurt.
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:43 AM   #37
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The NY Times ran an article a couple days ago entitled "Why is the Govt. Afraid of Fat"?. Worth reading, if you have access to the Times.
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Old 07-11-2015, 12:00 PM   #38
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It's going to be a long time before this message overcomes the previous decades of misinformation.

Also, the food companies need to catch up. For example, try finding "regular yogurt" in most stores. They are filled with 0% or low fat products that have added sugar to the exclusion of actual yogurt.
You are absolutely right. I don't expect to see accurate information from the fed. govt. or any of the major food companies in my lifetime, that's for sure. They have no incentive to provide accurate info., because processed foods are what earn the big profits. You can't make much money telling people to eat fresh vegetables.

As for yogurt, you can sometimes find one or two brands of yogurt at the larger grocery stores that have no added sugar or artificial sweeteners. The ingredient label should say "cultured grade a milk, and active yogurt cultures". That's it. But you really have to look for it. They make mostly the sweetened stuff, because that is what sells. When I give most people (who say they like yogurt) some of the real, no-sugar yogurt, with just some fruit added, most of them say they don't like it. And if you press them as to why, it comes down to the fact that it's not sweet enough. The food companies have trained our palates to expect sweetened food. Ketchup, BBQ sauce, many Asian sauces, etc. all have added sugar, and many people don't even realize it.
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:24 PM   #39
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Ketchup, BBQ sauce, many Asian sauces, etc. all have added sugar, and many people don't even realize it.
I recently bought a big-name Italian dressing to use in a recipe. The #3 ingredient is high-fructose corn syrup. More HFCS than vinegar. Also, no olive oil listed as an ingredient. Huh? I won't be buying that stuff again.

I wonder if some of the reason the big health advisers are not saying much has to do with legal issues? After all for years they told us that things like high trans-fat margarine and chocolate sugar bomb cereals where healthy for our hearts. So, Mr. Compliant follows their advice, develops heart disease after 30+ years, and decides to sue. Not that I advocate law suits.
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:46 PM   #40
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Just when I start thinking I need to be more vigilant in my diet, I have to read about this lady who is one of only two people left alive that was born in the 1800's. Doctor admitted her diet was poor as she never ate fruits and vegetables, and having raw eggs as a life long staple. I believe she was on no medications either.


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