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Old 08-22-2011, 12:28 PM   #61
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Actually, it is true that weight loss is about calories in vs calories out. That's the way the universe works. Sorry.
You say that it's just "calories in/calories out," and you're 100% right. But I'm going to give you an example, that I think will make you realize, that while true, that law is actually irrelevant to weight loss, and that all calories are not equivalent.

Let's say I gave you a pill to eat every morning. This pill contains only four calories. However, this pill affects your hormonal balance, and it makes you ravenously hungry all the time, and also quite lethargic. Perhaps it's related to your thyroid, but that doesn't matter for this example. What matters is that it makes you hungry and sedentary.

As a result, you are going to gain weight. The pill is only a few calories, but you have gained weight because it has made you to eat a lot more food and move around less.

Has your "calories in/calories out" thermodynamic law been violated? No, because, as a result of your extra eating, you have taken in a lot more calories, and expended fewer. But because of the nature of these calories that you've eaten, namely those four calories in the pill that affects your metabolism, you have gained weight. If you were to stop taking that four-calorie pill, you'd lose weight.

In other words, calories in/calories out is true, but not helpful in understanding weight gain or loss.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:36 PM   #62
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If you were to stop taking that four-calorie pill, you'd lose weight.
Is this four-calorie pill sugar/refined grains/carbohydrates?
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:40 PM   #63
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At least once a month we have someone join our classes at the gym who is usually much younger than the rest of us and exremely obese . I have to give these woman a lot of credit to take the first step . Think how hard that must be .
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:41 PM   #64
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Hey Moemg, there is no shortage of Well Nourished British lads here in Thailand. FYI
That is tempting chubby british guys and a lower cost of living !
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:04 PM   #65
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There's a difference between a "few extra pounds" and "obese"...
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:24 PM   #66
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At least once a month we have someone join our classes at the gym who is usually much younger than the rest of us and exremely obese . I have to give these woman a lot of credit to take the first step . Think how hard that must be .
Back a number of years when I ran/played with lifting weights at the local 'Y' after w*rk I'd often see (new) obese people on the track.......they'd chug around until they almost dropped......apparently believing they could lose all the weight in one day.

Don't believe I ever saw one of them show up twice.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:26 PM   #67
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I used to find it extremely difficult to loose weight until I discovered that the simple calories in and calories out is not exactly how it works.
No, that's actually exactly how it works.

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The first thing you need to understand is that your body stores excess fat in order to take toxins out of your blood stream to protect you.
No, you're thinking of the kidneys. Fat is just stored energy.

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If you remove toxins from your diet through juicing green leafy vegtables with carrot and apple for flavor, you will loose a bunch of weight.
I didn't realize "toxins" were so heavy.

Isn't it possible that the high-fibre content of leafy green vegetables make you feel fuller sooner, so your appetite is sated with fewer calories? Is it possible that is what actually leads to the weight loss?

Maybe you should get your nutritional information from an actual doctor, rather than late-night juicer infomercials.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:36 PM   #68
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Back a number of years when I ran/played with lifting weights at the local 'Y' after w*rk I'd often see (new) obese people on the track.......they'd chug around until they almost dropped......apparently believing they could lose all the weight in one day.

Don't believe I ever saw one of them show up twice.
We have several women in our class who are now half the size they were when they first joined .
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #69
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Isn't it possible that the high-fibre content of leafy green vegetables make you feel fuller sooner, so your appetite is sated with fewer calories? Is it possible that is what actually leads to the weight loss?

Maybe you should get your nutritional information from an actual doctor, rather than late-night juicer infomercials.
Well the fact that you are juicing all of this removes all the non soluble fiber. I did my calorie counting and I was consuming more than 2400 calories in a day through juice and light dinner. Mostly due to the number of carrots and apples that was in my juices. Anyway, no additional exercise other than standard walking around etc.

So if you are correct that calories in vs calories out I should have been gaining weight. I certainly wasn't doing an extra 3600 calories of expenditure each day that would have taken to drop the 1 pound a day I was experiencing. It has since leveled off, but I was 200 lb (that's the reason I started this) and now I have leveled off at 166lb. I am 5 foot 9 inches tall male.

Say what you guys want, but the weight loss community are starting to figure this all out. Fat is used to store toxins. If you give your body the nutrients in green leafy vegetables you remove the need for the fat stores. They then get broken down and removed from the body.

It is true you can burn them using extra energy, but this is not the only way. I have had blood work done 6 weeks ago and again 3 days ago, my heavy metals have all dropped, my bad cholesterol has dropped, my good cholesterol has raised. Look, you guys can believe all day long that the world is still flat but it doesn't make it so.

Don't believe me? Try a juice fast for yourself and see the pounds melt away. Check out the wheat grass trucker, or Dan the liferegenerator on youtube. There are thousands of these success stories.

The fact is "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still". Based on my experience and those of the people I have seen doing juice fasting or feasting there is much more to weight loss than just total calories in vs total calories out. Don't believe me try it yourself and report your success or failures.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:52 PM   #70
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I agree, but I don't think it's not a matter of choice. Give me a pill that will make me not judge someone who is smoking, tattooed, driving an overpriced gas guzzler, and drinking a 20 oz Pepsi, and I will take that pill.
Thank God, I drink 32 oz Cokes

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There's a difference between a "few extra pounds" and "obese"...
Even those terms are bogus. Bodybuilders are obese if you only use the BMI charts. It's not just a weight, a BMI number or whatever. I'm obviously overweight, but many people can't believe a I weigh what I do. I'm not a 160 lb guy trapped in a 300 lb body. I'm a 220 lb guy trapped in a 300 lb body.

I love it when my 150 lb, 5 foot 4 inch doctor tells me I need to weigh 180 lbs as I tower over him, my shoulders twice as wide as his. Really? people are built different and charts and graphs can only approximate at best. Like the body builder example, we can all agree those guys are anything but fat, but when you weight 230 lbs and are only 5'8", the charts say you're overweight, if not obese.

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No, that's actually exactly how it works.
To a point yes, but if you take in say 1000 calories a day, you will likely gain weight as your body goes into starvation mode. Not calories in calories out. Same if you exercise too much and take in too little. You can gain weight if you are dieting and weight training as you're body trades fat for muscle. You can lose weight, but get fatter as your body loses muscle and gains fat.

There are a lot of mysterious goings on in the various glands and primitive brain areas, probably at least somewhat caused by processed and refined foods, that cause people to plateau even though they take in fewer calories than they expend, even for long periods. You're body can steal muscle and build fat reserves independent of your caloric intake.

My body loves my current weight. I've been up to 20 lbs lighter on several occasions, but no matter what I do, once I stop dieting, my weight jumps back up. I'm talking days, not weeks or months. If a pound is 3500 calories, there is no way I take in an additional 35000 to 70000 calories in the course of a week or so. I've kept track, but it's all but impossible to do so. something else is going on besides simple calories in, calories out.

Long term, I agree that if you take in fewer calories than you expend you will lose weight, but even then weird things happen. It is not a simple thing or we'd all loose weight at will. Just cut down a few calories and magically the weight would melt away, but as many people can attest, that isn't always the way it works out.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #71
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Don't need to go. Just enjoy the view from your favorite chair:

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Old 08-22-2011, 03:04 PM   #72
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While "calories in vs. calories out" is real, not everyone burns the same number of calories even if they are equally active. I eat nothing but processed garbage and lots of it. I get no physical activity except for a small amount of walking. I never eat fruits or vegetables except lettuce in tacos and mashed potatoes with butter and/or gravy. I eat a pizza with pepperoni and sausage almost every single day with a soda to drink. I eat processed summer sausage with processed cheese and high carbohydrate bread. Also have several fatty peanut butter sandwiches per day. I eat up to 10 cookies per day at 60 calories each along with other snacks. I've eaten like this for over 10 years and never gain weight. The average person likely would've gained 50+ pounds over 10 years doing what i've done. I clearly have a very high resting calorie burn(high metabolism). I do nothing to burn extra calories yet I burn all ~4000 I take in every day. Others struggle to burn half that even with lots of exercise. I'm 6'6 1/2 and weigh 165lbs.

"Should obese people loose weight?"
If by "obese", you mean over 30% body fat, then yes. That doesn't mean they can though. If a doctor told me I had to gain 40lbs of fat or i'd die, then i'd die. The opposite is true for others. Not everyone is built the same.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:11 PM   #73
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While "calories in vs. calories out" is real, not everyone burns the same number of calories even if they are equally active. I eat nothing but processed garbage and lots of it. I get no physical activity except for a small amount of walking. I never eat fruits or vegetables except lettuce in tacos and mashed potatoes with butter and/or gravy. I eat a pizza with pepperoni and sausage almost every single day with a soda to drink. I eat processed summer sausage with processed cheese and high carbohydrate bread. Also have several fatty peanut butter sandwiches per day. I eat up to 10 cookies per day at 60 calories each along with other snacks. I've eaten like this for over 10 years and never gain weight. The average person likely would've gained 50+ pounds over 10 years doing what i've done. I clearly have a very high resting calorie burn(high metabolism). I do nothing to burn extra calories yet I burn all ~4000 I take in every day. Others struggle to burn half that even with lots of exercise. I'm 6'6 1/2 and weight 165lbs.

"Should obese people loose weight?"
If by "obese", you mean over 30% body fat, then yes. That doesn't mean they can though. If a doctor told me I had to gain 40lbs of fat or i'd die, then i'd die. The opposite is true for others. Not everyone is built the same.
+1. we do not know everything, either as an accepted body of scientific knowlege, or as indiviual opinionators.

Thus, we would seem more attractive if we were not so judmental and opinionated. It is unfortunate enough to be opinionated, doubly unfortunate to be opinionated and wrong.

The other thing I wonder about- who designated overweight people as today's favotite piņata?

Ha
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:21 PM   #74
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Even those terms are bogus. Bodybuilders are obese if you only use the BMI charts. It's not just a weight, a BMI number or whatever. I'm obviously overweight, but many people can't believe a I weigh what I do. I'm not a 160 lb guy trapped in a 300 lb body. I'm a 220 lb guy trapped in a 300 lb body.
I'm not talking about charts, though. But too much body fat, especially in the midsection, seems to be problematic.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:23 PM   #75
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OK, I'm convinced. I'm going to start my Vitameatavegamin juice diet first thing in the morning.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:58 PM   #76
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+1. we do not know everything, either as an accepted body of scientific knowlege, or as indiviual opinionators.

Thus, we would seem more attractive if we were not so judmental and opinionated. It is unfortunate enough to be opinionated, doubly unfortunate to be opinionated and wrong.

The other thing I wonder about- who designated overweight people as today's favotite piņata?

Ha
+1. IMHO, it's bad Karma to judge others or feel superior because you're thin - don't have bad habits - etc.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:07 PM   #77
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..................The other thing I wonder about- who designated overweight people as today's favotite piņata?

Ha
Good point. What's up with those crazy ballroom dancers?
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:42 PM   #78
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OK, I'm convinced. I'm going to start my Vitameatavegamin juice diet first thing in the morning.
I'll bet that reference draws a generational line in the sand!
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:09 PM   #79
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I thought it was safe, since Lucy's 100th anniversary celebration was played up pretty big recently.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:12 PM   #80
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Actually, it is true that weight loss is about calories in vs calories out.
I agree. But I suppose some people may have to exercise more than others to accomplish the same "calories out". And maybe there are some differences in "calories in" for those consuming the same foods..

I gained 25 lbs last winter by eating the same 2200 calorie per day diet that I'm eating now (but with no exercise). My research shows that I should consume 1900 calories per day to maintain current weight. Its easy to see that the weight gain last winter was due to exceeding my break even calorie intake by about 300 calories per day.

Now I'm exercising to the point where I'm burning an additional 600 calories per day. So I'm consuming approx 300 calories per day under the break even point. And so I've dropped the 25 lbs I gained last winter. It took about 5 months to gain it and about 5 months to lose it.

So for me it looks like it is as simple as "calories in vs calories out"
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