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Old 08-22-2011, 05:16 PM   #81
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I'll bet that reference draws a generational line in the sand!
I love Lucy! Must be old. I remember that one Nords. Before my time but I watched Lucy many times in my life. Here it is for the youngsters. Sorry for the subtitles, best version I could find. "It's so tasty too!"

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Old 08-22-2011, 05:20 PM   #82
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While "calories in vs. calories out" is real, not everyone burns the same number of calories even if they are equally active. I eat nothing but processed garbage and lots of it. I get no physical activity except for a small amount of walking. I never eat fruits or vegetables except lettuce in tacos and mashed potatoes with butter and/or gravy. I eat a pizza with pepperoni and sausage almost every single day with a soda to drink. I eat processed summer sausage with processed cheese and high carbohydrate bread. Also have several fatty peanut butter sandwiches per day. I eat up to 10 cookies per day at 60 calories each along with other snacks. I've eaten like this for over 10 years and never gain weight. The average person likely would've gained 50+ pounds over 10 years doing what i've done. I clearly have a very high resting calorie burn(high metabolism). I do nothing to burn extra calories yet I burn all ~4000 I take in every day. Others struggle to burn half that even with lots of exercise. I'm 6'6 1/2 and weigh 165lbs.
Ah, to be 32 again. I was famous for how much I could eat, and once ate 24 little steaks.

But if I could go back in time, and talk to my former self, I would tell myself "Cut back on carbs now and you won't need to cut way way back later."
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:26 PM   #83
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That was wonderful!

Ha
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:42 PM   #84
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I've been overweight for years, dieted for years, lost and regained weight for years and now I've found the answer.......don't diet. Make life long changes.

After reading parts of the book "Volumetrics" I decided to give it a try.......it seemed to make sense. A huge bag of lettuce is 100 calories, low fat dressing doesn't add too much. And, it fills up my big but shrinking tummy.

Last week Bill Clinton was featured on a show talking about heart disease and becoming a vegeterian....doesn't eat meat fish or dairy.......I can't do all that The former President is back to what he weighed as a youth. What I've done is slowly increase excercise, up to 40 minutes a day, and eliminate "bad" foods from my diet......just like a certified drunk gives up all booze, I'm a certified overeater and I've given up quite a bit, all for the rest of my life. I've given up ice cream, donuts, cakes, regular potato chips.......the list goes on and on. I've added salads, veggies, lean chicken, wheat bread, lots of snacks like carrots, celery sticks etc.

Overall, I eat as much and as often as I used to but I've taken off about 40 pounds in five years. My knees don't ache, I feel better and I'm no longer a pre diabetic. And, I love what I eat......it's a win!

I'm older and if I didn't do all this I'd probably be dead. Now, everybody has to do their own thing.......and they have to want to do it and enjoy it.

I grew up with parents that showered me with cookies, fried food and chocolate cake; they didn't know better......I do. Yes, some people are naturally thin, so what, I can't change who I am by birth but I can change how I treat my body.

I really like the food I eat, the excercise I do each day and I still want to lose 20 more pounds.......I'll still be a little overweight. Can I do it? I don't know but I do know I've added processed baked potato chips to my "do not eat" list, replacing them with fat free chocolate pudding made with skim milk.....It may help. And, I've added 10 minutes on the treadmill after dinner......enjoying that 4 nights a week as well.

Good luck to all of you......changing my eating habits was the hardest thing I've even done, dieting made me unhappy, regaining weight made we ashamed, buying in the big and tall stores drove me nuts. Just think through what you want and can do and maybe you'll accomplish goals you never thought you could. Good Luck!!!!
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:05 PM   #85
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Fat is used to store toxins.
No, it isn't. Fat is used by all mammals and many other animals to store surplus energy from food, for possible future use. Non-specific "toxins" are a pseudo-scientific invention of quacks, who, when challenged, usually move on to "energy field balance", keeping the word "quantum" in reserve for when things get really tough.

Please specify one (1) "toxin" which "fat is used to store", and we'll examine your claims further.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #86
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Look . . . There is physics. There is metabolism. There is psychology.

There is a long history of dieting that involves counting calories. In this case the physics prevails. Weight loss is related to calories in vs calories out. Whether you are hungry or not is not the point with calorie counting.

Next. Everyone's metabolism is a little different. I agree that people may metabolize food at different rates and in different ways. The 4 cal pill may make you hungry but we still have free will to eat more or less. Obese people should consult a Dr. when trying to lose substantial amount of weight to address their particular metabolism.

As for the psychology . . . I also said that losing weight is not easy. Both your body and your mind can be working against you. There are lots of different ways to go about it. Or maybe, there is no way out for some people.

The OP was commenting on "healthy obese" people. I was saying that there are health statistics to consider. If they want to do battle with their body and their mind to get on the right side of these statistics then I wish them luck. Really. However, if they want to just learn to accept their present situation then that is OK too. As long as they are making an informed decision.

It would be unfortunate if there was a small number of healthy obese and everyone thought they were going to be in that subset of people. I guess I would just like people to be realistic about their chances and to make informed decision about their life.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:22 PM   #87
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We have several women in our class who are now half the size they were when they first joined .
OMG!

2 1/2 feet tall?
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:40 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by martyp View Post
There is a long history of dieting that involves counting calories. In this case the physics prevails. Weight loss is related to calories in vs calories out.
Well, of course there is a relation. But to bring this into the realm of physics, you'd have to be more specific about that relation. Constant? Inverse? Or what? If calories in/out is completely irrelevant to weight loss, there's still a relation.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by jerome len View Post
I've been overweight for years, dieted for years, lost and regained weight for years and now I've found the answer.......don't diet. Make life long changes.

After reading parts of the book "Volumetrics" I decided to give it a try.......it seemed to make sense. A huge bag of lettuce is 100 calories, low fat dressing doesn't add too much. And, it fills up my big but shrinking tummy.

Last week Bill Clinton was featured on a show talking about heart disease and becoming a vegeterian....doesn't eat meat fish or dairy.......I can't do all that The former President is back to what he weighed as a youth. What I've done is slowly increase excercise, up to 40 minutes a day, and eliminate "bad" foods from my diet......just like a certified drunk gives up all booze, I'm a certified overeater and I've given up quite a bit, all for the rest of my life. I've given up ice cream, donuts, cakes, regular potato chips.......the list goes on and on. I've added salads, veggies, lean chicken, wheat bread, lots of snacks like carrots, celery sticks etc.

Overall, I eat as much and as often as I used to but I've taken off about 40 pounds in five years. My knees don't ache, I feel better and I'm no longer a pre diabetic. And, I love what I eat......it's a win!

I'm older and if I didn't do all this I'd probably be dead. Now, everybody has to do their own thing.......and they have to want to do it and enjoy it.

I grew up with parents that showered me with cookies, fried food and chocolate cake; they didn't know better......I do. Yes, some people are naturally thin, so what, I can't change who I am by birth but I can change how I treat my body.

I really like the food I eat, the excercise I do each day and I still want to lose 20 more pounds.......I'll still be a little overweight. Can I do it? I don't know but I do know I've added processed baked potato chips to my "do not eat" list, replacing them with fat free chocolate pudding made with skim milk.....It may help. And, I've added 10 minutes on the treadmill after dinner......enjoying that 4 nights a week as well.

Good luck to all of you......changing my eating habits was the hardest thing I've even done, dieting made me unhappy, regaining weight made we ashamed, buying in the big and tall stores drove me nuts. Just think through what you want and can do and maybe you'll accomplish goals you never thought you could. Good Luck!!!!
Thanks for sharing this. Lots of wisdom here. I've been very interested in what President Clinton has shared about his vegan diet. Not sure how to take it. I've seen vegans who have done very well and others...well, not so much. It's such an individual thing.

Good luck to you too Jerome.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:07 PM   #90
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But aren't all the obese people driving up our health care costs?
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:07 PM   #91
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I'm not talking about charts, though. But too much body fat, especially in the midsection, seems to be problematic.
Seems to be, but it's not a hard and fast rule. Little is when it comes to health.

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 View Post
While "calories in vs. calories out" is real, not everyone burns the same number of calories even if they are equally active. I eat nothing but processed garbage and lots of it. I get no physical activity except for a small amount of walking. I never eat fruits or vegetables except lettuce in tacos and mashed potatoes with butter and/or gravy. I eat a pizza with pepperoni and sausage almost every single day with a soda to drink. I eat processed summer sausage with processed cheese and high carbohydrate bread. Also have several fatty peanut butter sandwiches per day. I eat up to 10 cookies per day at 60 calories each along with other snacks. I've eaten like this for over 10 years and never gain weight. The average person likely would've gained 50+ pounds over 10 years doing what i've done. I clearly have a very high resting calorie burn(high metabolism). I do nothing to burn extra calories yet I burn all ~4000 I take in every day. Others struggle to burn half that even with lots of exercise. I'm 6'6 1/2 and weigh 165lbs.
Oh, I've been avoiding those foods. I obviously need to eat more of that stuff. No wonder I've had such a hard time.

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The OP was commenting on "healthy obese" people. I was saying that there are health statistics to consider. If they want to do battle with their body and their mind to get on the right side of these statistics then I wish them luck. Really. However, if they want to just learn to accept their present situation then that is OK too. As long as they are making an informed decision.
I guess that's the point. It's really a personal decision. How long are you going to battle your weight and at what cost to your health and quality of life. People do a lot of things that carry increased risk for them, not just carry around extra weight. Honestly, if those really unhealthy overweight folks wanna keep on eating whatever they feel like, that's fine as long as they know the consequences.

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The other thing I wonder about- who designated overweight people as today's favotite piñata?

Ha
Probably the same people that decided smokers were piñata.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:20 PM   #92
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Please specify one (1) "toxin" which "fat is used to store", and we'll examine your claims further.
Tetrahydrocannabinol.

Although I guess that depends on your definition of "toxin"...
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:31 PM   #93
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People do a lot of things that carry increased risk for them, not just carry around extra weight. Honestly, if those really unhealthy overweight folks wanna keep on eating whatever they feel like, that's fine as long as they know the consequences.
I wonder what a life actuary would say about the relative risk of a person otherwise in good health carrying 20% extra weight, as compared to a person who rides motorcycles regularly? Especially if this were expressed as healthy months lost, on average.

I have no idea, but it might be illuminating.

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Old 08-22-2011, 08:00 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by HFWR
But too much body fat, especially in the midsection, seems to be problematic.
Seems to be, but it's not a hard and fast rule.
The exception proves the rule:
Quote:
Scientists found that non-obese heart failure patients – including overweight, normal and underweight patients – had a 76 percent increase in risk of sudden cardiac death compared to obese heart failure patients. Normal and underweight patients showed a startling 99 percent increase in risk for sudden cardiac death compared to obese patients.
As Girth Grows, Risk of Sudden Cardiac Death Shrinks - News Room - University of Rochester Medical Center
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:04 PM   #95
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Tetrahydrocannabinol.

Although I guess that depends on your definition of "toxin"...
One man's toxin is another man's...
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:33 PM   #96
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Jerome, congrats on your efforts thus far. And I read a book about veganism that was most interesting, called the Engine 2 Diet, created by a handful of firefighters (talk about macho men to be vegans)! It was fascinating, but like you, I just can't live on that many restrictions to food choices.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #97
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But aren't all the obese people driving up our health care costs?
IIRC it's complicated because unhealthy people die sooner.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:27 PM   #98
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IIRC it's complicated because unhealthy people die sooner.
And it's even more complicated because many unhealthy people are not obese.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:18 PM   #99
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IIRC it's complicated because unhealthy people die sooner.
After spending forty years in health care I can honestly say that you are wrong .People get sick and die with no rhyme or reason . It's just life !
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:17 AM   #100
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I just watched a series of 10 videos from a presentation that Gary Taubes made at The Walnut Creek Library in April of this year.

In episode 8, he is answering questions from attendees about why sometimes the low carb diet doesn't seem to work, or works for a while, then doesn't, even when people remain compliant.

He quotes a Dr. In England who has treated a large number of obese patients with carb restriction. He says that in maybe 20% of cases, the diet does not work, or does not continue to work until all the extra weight has been lost.

He said that this is more common in people who are quite obese, or who have been obese for a long time.

Ha
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