Should All Obese People Lose Weight?

[BigNick]

One man's toxin is another man's...

My understanding is that the form of THC which is stored in fat is not the one which gets you high. I also don't know of any evidence that it's toxic, let alone "a toxin" (which in any case is a term which is probably being abused by whoever is selling the miracle cure).

Generally speaking, the human body evolved to get rid of substances which are bad for it, not to retain them. But let's suppose for a moment that taking "toxins" out of circulation into fat was a good idea. Surely then, releasing those toxins by eliminating the fat would be a bad idea ? It sounds like asbestos in old buildings: no danger to anybody until you start to knock down the walls.

 

[TromboneAl]

IIRC it's complicated because unhealthy people die sooner.

I was thinking of this study, looking at the costs of smoking for society:

However, smokers die some 10 years earlier than nonsmokers, according to the CDC, and those premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs.

...

A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.


The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.

​

 

[REWahoo]

Sad, but we could probably solve a large portion of our future Medicare problems by encouraging everyone over the age of 50 to overeat and start smoking...

 

[rescueme]

Ah, to be 32 again. I was famous for how much I could eat, and once ate 24 little steaks.

That's what I was thinking.

With age comes wisdom (and a bit of weight )...

Reminds me of the statement "youth is wasted on the young"...

 

[Bestwifeever]

If some unhealthy or obese people die younger and save medical dollars, SS, etc., and some live longer and do the opposite, and neither directly affects us, it's probably a wash.

So no one really needs to become the health police in terms of any one else's choices, do we?

 

[rescueme]

So no one really needs to become the health police in terms of any one else's choices, do we?

Sure we do; what else would we talk about all day? ...

 

[Nords]

Sad, but we could probably solve a large portion of our future Medicare problems by encouraging everyone over the age of 50 to overeat and start smoking...

How much encouragement have we had to supply so far?

 

[FinanceDude]

My late sister the food scientist explained it to me this way: "Human are genetically predispositioned to hunger for two things, fats and sweets". So, all the food industry is doing is giving people the things their brain tells them they crave, pretty simple, huh?"

 

[kombat]

Even those terms [overweight and obese] are bogus. Bodybuilders are obese if you only use the BMI charts.

And what percentage of the population are professional bodybuilders?

So if a metric is invalid for 0.0001% of the population, but perfectly valid for the other 99.9999%, that makes it "bogus?"

I think BMI is a useful rule of thumb, but not a precise medical diagnostic tool. If your BMI says you're "obese," but you're a professional bodybuilder, then disregard it. Otherwise, maybe it's worth talking to your doctor, hmm?

 

[Bestwifeever]

Sure we do; what else would we talk about all day? ...

Okay, I'll fill in as the health officer of the day, then: I have a heavy sister-in-law whose mother did a great job creating weight issues for her starting in her teens when she was maybe 5 lbs. overweight but her mother couldn't overlook it. I wonder how many obese people can trace their psychological weight issues back to parents who weren't happy with them.

 

[Nuiloa]

I'm seriously obese - and I'm also the healthiest person I know. I can easily walk a mile (slowly), and probably more (if I liked it enough to try). I can easily swim 2 miles a day and don't even breathe hard. I teach Hawaiian dance and tap dancing. I do geocaching for hours at a time. I rarely get sick.

My heart, blood pressure, blood sugar and cholesterol are all normal.

If weight was as easy to lose as motivation, I'd be skinny. I can last about 2 days, and then I go for simplicity (in the form of take-out). I like to think that, once I retire, I'll suddenly feel the need to lose weight and make sweeping lifestyle changes, but the reality is that I probably won't.

What is far more likely is that I will start a movement to have plane seats, theatre seats and restaurant booths fixed so that people who are a molecule larger than the average anorexic fashion model will be able to fit into them.

 

[a]

My body loves my current weight. I've been up to 20 lbs lighter on several occasions, but no matter what I do, once I stop dieting, my weight jumps back up. I'm talking days, not weeks or months. If a pound is 3500 calories, there is no way I take in an additional 35000 to 70000 calories in the course of a week or so.

Sounds like the set-point idea. Do you think there's any way a person could permanently lower their set point?

I've been overweight for years, dieted for years, lost and regained weight for years and now I've found the answer.......don't diet

Do you believe in the idea that going down and back up in weight increases your set point permanently? That is, each trip up and down the yo-yo makes one stabilize at an even higher weight than before?

The 4 cal pill may make you hungry but we still have free will to eat more or less.

Once I realized that the way I feel when I've been on a daily caloric deficit for four weeks, is the way obese people feel when they've been on their own deficit for X many weeks, I lost the ability to blame them for not being able to break past a certain barrier. The remnant parts of our brain that control appetite, sex drive, hormones, and all that sort of thing outside the realm of conscious free will, is stupendously strong.

 

[rescueme]

I wonder how many obese people can trace their psychological weight issues back to parents who weren't happy with them.

I can link other problems I have back to my parents (just ask DW for a list), but weight was not one of them ...

 

[haha]

Sounds like the set-point idea. Do you think there's any way a person could permanently lower their set point?

I have no personal experience, but this has worked in some studies. Permanent is a big word, but it seems that it might be low risk to try this liquid diet.

Whole Health Source: Food Palatability and Body Fatness: Clues from Alliesthesia

Ha

 

[FinanceDude]

I can link other problems I have back to my parents (just ask DW for a list), but weight was not one of them ...

If I had an in-depth discussion of my parents on here, it would easily take up 2000+ posts.............

 

[Sarah in SC]

All of my stellar traits are the result of my own brilliance and hard work, all my bad ones are of course my parents' fault. See, it can be done with less than 2000 posts!

 

[FinanceDude]

All of my stellar traits are the result of my own brilliance and hard work, all my bad ones are of course my parents' fault. See, it can be done with less than 2000 posts!

You met the REASONABLE side of my family in SC.........

 

[a]

I have no personal experience, but this has worked in some studies. Permanent is a big word, but it seems that it might be low risk to try this liquid diet.

Whole Health Source: Food Palatability and Body Fatness: Clues from Alliesthesia

Ha

Thanks for the tip. The alliesthesia concept is one I hadn't come across though I read avidly on set point the past few days. That blog post also has many responses below it with good links.

 

[Nuiloa]

Thanks for the tip. The alliesthesia concept is one I hadn't come across though I read avidly on set point the past few days. That blog post also has many responses below it with good links.

So, in other words, if it tastes good, don't eat it.

 

[freebird5825]

On Comedy Central a few years ago, there was a guy picking on obese people. He commented that: "Not all obses people should think they have to lose weight, on the fat ones"..........he got pretty good crowd response on that........

The only issue I have with people that are very overweight is at times their choice of dress. Shoehorning yourself into tight Spandex pants WILL get you noticed, but often NOT in the right way........

This is a particular pet peeve of mine. A few extra pounds means you need larger clothing. Hellooooooo
I myself am a size 18 at 5'6", 183 pounds. Sounds like a lot for a woman, but my body frame is large and I have a lot of large muscle mass and dense bones from years of playing sports.
However, I carry my extra "out of shape" pounds around the middle, so the LAST thing I would wear is a bikini, a cropped midriff shirt, or low slung jeans. Apple body types do not look good in these clothing styles.

 

[flyfishnevada]

Sad, but we could probably solve a large portion of our future Medicare problems by encouraging everyone over the age of 50 to overeat and start smoking...

Can I start drinking more too?

If some unhealthy or obese people die younger and save medical dollars, SS, etc., and some live longer and do the opposite, and neither directly affects us, it's probably a wash.

So no one really needs to become the health police in terms of any one else's choices, do we?

Makes you wonder why he nanny state even exists, doesn't it? They all claim the risky stuff we all do costs society money. Apparently it saves society money.

And what percentage of the population are professional bodybuilders?

So if a metric is invalid for 0.0001% of the population, but perfectly valid for the other 99.9999%, that makes it "bogus?"

I think BMI is a useful rule of thumb, but not a precise medical diagnostic tool. If your BMI says you're "obese," but you're a professional bodybuilder, then disregard it. Otherwise, maybe it's worth talking to your doctor, hmm?

The BMI is not valid for me, but I'm not a body builder, just used to lift a lot of weights and have a big build. It's not valid for some very thin people I know. When my doctor insists I need to weigh 185 max even though a simple body fat calculation indicates I should weigh about 220, it is no longer worth talking about. I would have to lose a lot of muscle to get to 185. Maybe I could cut off a leg.

Sounds like the set-point idea. Do you think there's any way a person could permanently lower their set point?

I'm sure there is, but I haven't found it yet. Maybe sustained calorie deficit, maybe more intense exercise, who knows? I tried the HCG diet. If you aren't familiar, a google search will give you more info that you can shake a stick at. Its supposed to reset you metabolism. I have seen it work for some people, but I gained the weight back within two weeks. I can't even eat the calories I'm supposed to, 3200 or so, without feeling terrible. I eat around 2500 a day. If you believe the diet literature, I'm in starvation mode at 2500 and that's why I gained weight. My ramped up metabolism needs more food. I'm not buying it.

 

[Nuiloa]

However, I carry my extra pounds around the middle, so the LAST thing I would wear is a bikini, a cropped midriff shirt, or low slung jeans. Apple body types do not look good in these clothing styles.

Sadly, everything I wear becomes a thong. It ain't pretty

 

[Amethyst]

I understand where you are coming from, but must demur on the way you phrase it. Public seats fit me fine, yet that doesn't make me anorexic, nor a fashion model. Anorexia is a serious mental disorder, and it is wrong to compare anyone who isn't anorexic, to someone who is suffering from it. It also doesn't mean I have no sympathy for big people who feel squished!

Let's just agree that the paying public deserves a variety of seating to accommodate our diverse human sizes and builds.

Amethyst

I'm seriously obese - ... I will start a movement to have plane seats, theatre seats and restaurant booths fixed so that people who are a molecule larger than the average anorexic fashion model will be able to fit into them.

 

[travelover]

Sadly, everything I wear becomes a thong. It ain't pretty

This thread is useless without pic..........oh never mind.

 

[Purron]

This is a particular pet peeve of mine. A few extra pounds means you need larger clothing. Hellooooooo
I myself am a size 18 at 5'6", 183 pounds. Sounds like a lot for a woman, but my body frame is large and I have a lot of large muscle mass and dense bones from years of playing sports.
However, I carry my extra "out of shape" pounds around the middle, so the LAST thing I would wear is a bikini, a cropped midriff shirt, or low slung jeans. Apple body types do not look good in these clothing styles.

You look marvelous freebird