Sleep. For a nightcap, which is healthier: alcohol or marijuana? if you need chemical

Deep restorative sleep is important enough for me to strive for the noble state of purity - no exogenous chemicals. I get this most nights.

I am however, fairly dependent on the endogenous chemical cocktail that comes with exercise, if I get too little, my sleep suffers.
On those nights where I need a little nudge, I use 5mg lithium orotate, and on rare occasions low dose (~2mg) Zolpidem (Ambien).
I have tried various cannabis products but they proved too inconsistent to be useful. An alcohol nightcap definitely does not work for me.

Whatever gets you through the night...... John Lennon
 
Vacation4us said:
I am shocked how many think smoking dope is acceptable.
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Just curious. Do you and your current husband have the same opinion about alcohol which is much more dangerous to society... comparing apples to apple.
 
VanWinkle said:
We are not talking about us, we are talking about our opinion of the legalization and the safety concerns that come with it.
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Actually, the question posed was whether alcohol or pot was healthier as a nightcap, if you need a chemical to help you sleep.

It was not a discussion about the hazards of legalization until someone tried to derail the topic into that discussion.

So, are you stating that alcohol is safer as a nightcap than pot? If so, do you have some science you can point us to for support?
 
It's funny my old state voted in medical cannabis. A state physician board came out against it, suggesting the docs talk to patients about their symptoms and prescribe traditional drugs.

So for me that would mean going back on opioids and benzos. Thanks but no! Maybe add some soma and I wouldn't need any refills!
 
HadEnuff said:
Actually, the question posed was whether alcohol or pot was healthier as a nightcap, if you need a chemical to help you sleep.

It was not a discussion about the hazards of legalization until someone tried to derail the topic into that discussion.

So, are you stating that alcohol is safer as a nightcap than pot? If so, do you have some science you can point us to for support?
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Enough said, I bow to your intellect.
 
bjorn2bwild said:
Deep restorative sleep is important enough for me to strive for the noble state of purity - no exogenous chemicals. I get this most nights.

I am however, fairly dependent on the endogenous chemical cocktail that comes with exercise, if I get too little, my sleep suffers.
On those nights where I need a little nudge, I use 5mg lithium orotate, and on rare occasions low dose (~2mg) Zolpidem (Ambien).
I have tried various cannabis products but they proved too inconsistent to be useful. An alcohol nightcap definitely does not work for me.

Whatever gets you through the night...... John Lennon
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interesting. I am not a great sleeper. Generally, I have no problem falling asleep, but staying asleep for more than a couple of hours at a time is elusive. I don't indulge in pot, because it's not legal in my state. That in itself does not deter me, but due to the fact that it is illegal, I don't trust the supply chain, nor do I have access to good, legal information coupled with product I'd trust.

But your exercise point is well taken. I am a very fit 65 year old. Not a high endurance athlete, but in very good shape for my age. What I have consistently found, for 20 years or so, is that if I don't get enough exercise or fresh air, it adversely effects my sleep. Also, if I get too much exercise, my legs get twitchy, and they keep me up. I just nod off, and one of my legs, usually my right leg, will involuntarily twitch, waking me (and my long suffering DW) wake up.

DW tells me some nights I twitch like crazy and don't wake myself up, just her.
She's a saint for staying with me.
 
We don’t use pot but I know many people have been helped by it for chronic conditions. Luckily it is legal here. I think it should be everywhere.
 
For ten years I drank more and more due to undiagnosed dystonia. I was up to 750ml a week of Jack Daniels. I couldn't even get a buzz from beer (tried 12 one day.) I could sleep, but I had a heck of a hanger many mornings. I don't drink anymore, but I use marijuana nightly. I'm sleeping fine.
 
Vacation4us said:
I am shocked how many think smoking dope is acceptable. Last husband was a daily user. I for one do not think this legalization trend is a good thing.

I will suffer with insomnia before using that crap. My new husband doesn't think I should care about all the dope smokers. He says it's just thinning the gene pool.

We recently rented a car from Hertz stunk so bad of marijuana it gave me an instant headache. It was a brand new car, we tried multiple air fresheners nothing worked.

You smell people here East Bay, smoking and driving on the freeway just ridiculous you think DUI but they can't determine a legal limit since it stays in your system so long.

Ok, rant over. Sigh.
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You're sadly misinformed about the DUI issue. It's quite easy to get one. Good old fashioned field sobriety tests are admitted and prosecuted. The fact current testing technology has an issue with drug life cycle works against those who need medicine.

There's a lot of folks pouring money into immediate detection research.

Point is people do get DUI'S for driving under the influence.
 
donheff said:
I don't know and am not sure there is any research that answers the question about relative safety. Everything I read about alcohol would lead me to conclude that anything larger than a small night cap could be problematic and could interfere with sleep. I wonder why people think anything other than occasional use of Benadryl or NSAIDs like Advil are safe. NSAIDs are well known to cause gastro-intestinal problems.

I hear anecdotal reports from friends who use indica strains of marijuana to sleep (including DW who swears by it to alleviate restless leg syndrome and induce sleep) but I am not aware of studies documenting those effects or addressing safety of long term use. That said, I know people who have used it daily for half a century and seem fine. If I had sleeping problems I would risk marijuana before I would turn to regular use of NSAIDs and certainly regular use of prescription sleep meds.
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My DF has restless leg syndrome after a traumatic motorcycle wreck. You say your DE awears by Indica any particular strain specifically? All black market where I am so I never knkw what strain it is but DF says some but not all has helped in his 'observation'
 
MRG said:
Can't see anything on the OP.

IMHO alcohol will make you fall asleep and shortly after you will wake up restless and toss the rest of the night.

Cannibis, at least Indica strains are for relaxation and sleep. CBD while not technically indica, also makes for good rest. You may find that you don't dream as much or vividly. This can be a disappointment to some or a godsend to those who suffer with nightmares associated with PTSD.
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+1. I've had some nasty ones...but nothing on the THC
 
imoldernu said:
No solution. Have learned to get by with three hours of sleep.

BTW... where does one get marijuana? I don't think they sell it here.
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In llinois? You could get it online or else drive to Canada or now I guess Michigan
 
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Aerides said:
I find melatonin to be a nice alternative to other consumables.
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I tried it some years ago and some nights, it had a mild to moderate effect, but about once a week, it would cause me to not be able to fall asleep and lay in bed awake all night. After this happened a couple of times (and feeling awful the day after), I flushed the pills and vowed never to take it again!
 
I just awakened from a very deep sleep, in a completely unintentional nap after only getting 7 hours' sleep in last night.

A wonderfully comfortable easy chair and a good meal did me in. OK I was listening to a slightly boring podcast, too.
 
With all the reports who can tell what is healthier. I agree with a previous response that a clear conscience makes for good sleep. DW and I both sleep like rocks. DW retired in 2011 (at 51) and I retired in 2017 (at 51). We have 1-3 gin martinis almost every night. Most nights neither of us gets up before we have slept 6 hours or more. We are almost always asleep by 10;00 and are rarely in asleep after 5:30. it's 9:57 now and I'm signing off after an hour of blue light. I'll be asleep in 5 minutes or less.
 
CBD oil made from hemp with no THC. Readily available online.
 
morriss003 said:
For ten years I drank more and more due to undiagnosed dystonia. I was up to 750ml a week of Jack Daniels. I couldn't even get a buzz from beer (tried 12 one day.) I could sleep, but I had a heck of a hanger many mornings. I don't drink anymore, but I use marijuana nightly. I'm sleeping fine.
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Sorry, but your clearly an addict. Drank too much then replaced with pot. You don’t see a problem here? Or it it the lesser of 2 evils?

An addict is an addict weather it’s by drink,smoke, injection, or pills.

My beloved father was a recovering alcoholic. He was proud to have 10 years sober when he passed. My former husband was /is an addict but not an alcoholic. Neither is better than the other.

I suffer from insomnia, alcohol does not help achieve a good nights sleep. I would never try cannabis even if a million people promised relief with its use. Sleep remains elusive but an addict I refuse to be.

Exercise can help will try to be more consistent with that, my internal temperature seems to be my biggest barrier. I can’t sleep in a refrigerator so my wake cycles will continue I imagine.
 
IMHO alcohol will make you fall asleep and shortly after you will wake up restless and toss the rest of the night.
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+1
 
PS I have no intention of hijacking this thread. I wish us all a good nights sleep.

But maybe neither alcohol or cannabis are the solution.
 
Vacation4us said:
Sorry, but your clearly an addict. Drank too much then replaced with pot. You don’t see a problem here? Or it it the lesser of 2 evils?

An addict is an addict weather it’s by drink,smoke, injection, or pills.

My beloved father was a recovering alcoholic. He was proud to have 10 years sober when he passed. My former husband was /is an addict but not an alcoholic. Neither is better than the other.

I suffer from insomnia, alcohol does not help achieve a good nights sleep. I would never try cannabis even if a million people promised relief with its use. Sleep remains elusive but an addict I refuse to be.

Exercise can help will try to be more consistent with that, my internal temperature seems to be my biggest barrier. I can’t sleep in a refrigerator so my wake cycles will continue I imagine.
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I am laughing out loud. My honest response would get this thread locked up. :)
 
If Mj were legal in my state, I'd definitely give it a try.
I wonder though if the human animal is really wired to get 6 or 7 or 8 hours of deep continuous sleep per night. I wonder if it's not a product of the Industrial Revolution, and the Protestant Work Ethic, making us work 8 or 10 hours/day at a job, without a "siesta" that makes it such a necessity to be able to fit our rest into a specific, concentrated period of the day.
Now that I don't have to answer any particular bell at any particular time, I don't sweat it as much as I used to.
 
kgtest said:
My DF has restless leg syndrome after a traumatic motorcycle wreck. You say your DE swears by Indica any particular strain specifically? All black market where I am so I never know what strain it is but DF says some but not all has helped in his 'observation'
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No particular strain but always indica, often Master Kush. She chooses indica because it makes you sleepy at night which is when she has the worst RLS. Unlike you, we have medical marijuana available so she knows what she is getting. Sativas may help it the daytime but DW never tries them because she does not want to get high during the day. She does have a vape pen with CBD oil. This is the cannabis component that does not get you high and is available almost everywhere. If her RLS bothers her during the day she will occasionally take a couple of hits of CBD. She gets relief but not nearly as much as with THC bearing indicas at night. She can't say for sure whether the CBD is really helping or its simply walking around that helps during the day.


Vacation4us said:
Sorry, but your clearly an addict. Drank too much then replaced with pot. You don’t see a problem here? Or it it the lesser of 2 evils?

An addict is an addict weather it’s by drink,smoke, injection, or pills.
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This was not directed to me but I feel compelled to respond. Your post is very judgmental, hostile, and I believe ill informed. Loss of sleep can cause pretty serious problems. In your view, apparently anything used daily to help with sleep would be an addiction. In DW's case doctors recommend Requip (a Parkinson's drug) which works very well but has serious long term risks that seem to her and to me to be far more dangerous than anything we have seen or read about cannabis side effects.

Additionally, everything I have read about addiction implies that it exists when you have a compulsion to use the substance and you can't stop. Tobacco smoking is a prime example. Alcoholism is another - but like cannabis alcohol does not become a problem for most users. Nothing about DW's use would indicate an addiction. She does not find a need for increasing amounts to get the effect she uses it for. She does not use it during the day other than very occasional use of CBD which doesn't induce a high. And she has no cravings whatsoever in going without cannabis at night. She just suffers from the RLS and often has to get up and walk around. She goes without cannabis for long periods of time on travel and lives with the RLS, occasionally using Requip if she is having a particularly distracting night of it.

I assume that some cannabis users experience problems with it. I respect peoples' decision that it could present a risk and therefore is not worth trying. I would recommend that it would be consistent for them (or you) to apply that same rationale to alcohol which by all accounts presents a much higher risk than cannabis.
 
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HadEnuff said:
... I wonder though if the human animal is really wired to get 6 or 7 or 8 hours of deep continuous sleep per night. I wonder if it's not a product of the Industrial Revolution, and the Protestant Work Ethic, making us work 8 or 10 hours/day at a job, without a "siesta" that makes it such a necessity to be able to fit our rest into a specific, concentrated period of the day.
Now that I don't have to answer any particular bell at any particular time, I don't sweat it as much as I used to.
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I agree.

I think that before the 'Industrial Revolution and Protestant Work Ethic', people would be winding down at sunset. They would tend a fire for an hour, and then go off to bed.

That means that by 5pm in the winter all was quite and they were on their way to bed.

They would wake up somewhere around midnight, for an hour or two, before going back to sleep.

By the 'first light' they would actually be restless and ready to get up.
 
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