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Old 01-24-2008, 10:47 AM   #41
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i fail to understand why anyone would introduce into their bodies a chemical to supposedly correct a problem fixed simply by diet.

it is like eating antacids just so you can eat a hot pepper which burns your mouth and stomach.

when the choice is giving up chopped liver or take statins and risk your own liver instead and you choose to continue eating animal fat, you really ought to question, before you pop that pill, just how concerned you are with your own health.

Because those pharmacutical company doctors say you should!
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Old 01-24-2008, 10:53 AM   #42
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i fail to understand why anyone would introduce into their bodies a chemical to supposedly correct a problem fixed simply by diet.
Because not ALL things can be fixed by diet, there are things like genetic predisposition and family history to contend with.

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when the choice is giving up chopped liver or take statins and risk your own liver instead and you choose to continue eating animal fat, you really ought to question, before you pop that pill, just how concerned you are with your own health.
Can't argue with that. I know a couple folks that made huge lifestyle changes and dropped off the statins because they got so healthy...........
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:32 AM   #43
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Interesting the way the public statin debates have changed. If I remember correctly, five years ago there were a lot of news fluff pieces about the under-prescribed miracle drug which was horribly expensive.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #44
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Because not ALL things can be fixed by diet, there are things like genetic predisposition and family history to contend with.
certainly not all things. if you eat all your fruits & vegies but get cancer, by all means, have it fixed.

but how do you know that your body isn't supposed to have that level if that is the level you produce naturally. have studies been done on people who are simply genetically predisposed to higher levels but who do not intake animal fat? studies done on them when they eat healthy yet you continue to artificially lower their levels?

i just think this world is too quick to pop a pill.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:43 AM   #45
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There is very little heart disease in the japanese culture until it became a westernized society. In fact the low levels of cholesterol that they had showed a high risk of stroke of all things.

No the american diet is the reason for build up of plaque in our coronary arteries. Heck the reason so many MEN need VIAGRA has nothing to do with erectile disfunction but yes PLAQUE in the arteries of the you know what!!

Eat better, exercise more and live with much less STRESS!
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Old 01-25-2008, 11:04 AM   #46
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There is very little heart disease in the japanese culture until it became a westernized society. In fact the low levels of cholesterol that they had showed a high risk of stroke of all things.

No the american diet is the reason for build up of plaque in our coronary arteries. Heck the reason so many MEN need VIAGRA has nothing to do with erectile disfunction but yes PLAQUE in the arteries of the you know what!!

Eat better, exercise more and live with much less STRESS!
I heard Cialis is better.............
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:13 PM   #47
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I heard Cialis is better.............
Mike Ditka thrusting "footballs" through "tires" or Bob Dole pontificatng from inside a three-piece suit. Then there's rumors of the litigation over the "Cialis Inside" stickers. Hmmm... tough choice...

Next question:
[Numerous drafts, edits, and other premature false starts deleted here]
Rich, do we really want to know how medical science determined that there's plaque in those blood vessels?
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:23 PM   #48
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Mike Ditka thrusting "footballs" through "tires" or Bob Dole pontificatng from inside a three-piece suit. Then there's rumors of the litigation over the "Cialis Inside" stickers. Hmmm... tough choice...

Next question:
[Numerous drafts, edits, and other premature false starts deleted here]
Rich, do we really want to know how medical science determined that there's plaque in those blood vessels?
Maybe they talked to Lorena Bobbit.........
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:37 PM   #49
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Rich, do we really want to know how medical science determined that there's plaque in those blood vessels?


That wasn't science -- it was Newguy888. Ask him.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:43 PM   #50
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That wasn't science -- it was Newguy888. Ask him.
Read this..


Erectile Dysfunction Causes - urologychannel

Vascular Disease
Arteriosclerosis, the hardening and narrowing of the arteries, causes a reduction in blood flow throughout the body and can lead to impotence. It is associated with age and accounts for 50% to 60% of impotence in men over 60.
Risk factors for arteriosclerosis include:
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:12 PM   #51
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Read this:

Depends on the age. As one ages, the psychologic causes such as depression and performance anxiety decrease from > 90% down to a low of about 30%, while issues such as medications, diabetes, alcoholism, hormone problems, and a host of other conditions prevail. The cultural bias against acknowledging psychological factors, esp. among men, makes assessment of that component very difficult.

Such condiitons are very common in the aging, and their mere presence does not necessarily imply that they are the cause of impotence. In fact, the very high response rate to Viagra et al implies that the large vascular plumbing ["plaques"] is basically intact (a large arterial obstruction causing impotence would not reverse with viagra type drugs, yet 70% respond to viagra). Furthermore, a single episode of impotence related to fatigue, drugs, alcohol, or simply fatigue often sets off a pattern of performance anxiety. It is very difficult to determine "THE cause" of impotence in many cases.

It is true that vascular and other physical causes are not rare, especially in men over 60, smokers, heavy drinkers, those taking certain medications, etc.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:01 AM   #52
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Furthermore, a single episode of impotence related to fatigue, drugs, alcohol, or simply fatigue often sets off a pattern of performance anxiety. It is very difficult to determine "THE cause" of impotence in many cases. Yea sure, too much booze, the babe says I wantcha and well he just is not up to the task. Tisk Tisk. Don't drink so much!

No self confidence??

Or no real connection with other human during the effort??

But seriously, a build up of plaque in the arteries is a problem that many who use the drug or see that there is a problem does stem from coronary artery disease.
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:48 PM   #53
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i've already seen the commercials hyping impotence to scare viewers into taking a cholesterol pill.

oh good. another reason for statins: flaccidity

oh & by the way, i never met a gay man with performance anxiety. you poor str8 guys. it must be even worse than i thought. (sorry ladies, no offense intended.)

edit: i'm not sure but i think in the gay world performance anxiety maybe has something to do with singing in the choir.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:56 PM   #54
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oh & by the way, i never met a gay man with performance anxiety. you poor str8 guys. it must be even worse than i thought. (sorry ladies, no offense intended.)
I don't suffer from it, I'm always ANXIOUS to have sex...........
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Old 01-26-2008, 08:01 PM   #55
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i've already seen the commercials hyping impotence to scare viewers into taking a cholesterol pill.

oh good. another reason for statins: flaccidity

oh & by the way, i never met a gay man with performance anxiety. you poor str8 guys. it must be even worse than i thought. (sorry ladies, no offense intended.)

edit: i'm not sure but i think in the gay world performance anxiety maybe has something to do with singing in the choir.

Classic my friend classic
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:28 AM   #56
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I don't suffer from it, I'm always ANXIOUS to have sex...........
I believe the correct term is "eager"...
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:04 PM   #57
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I don't suffer from it, I'm always ANXIOUS to have sex...........
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I believe the correct term is "eager"...
oh grow up and quit being so premature.
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:26 PM   #58
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oh grow up and quit being so premature.
"There's about to be an orgasm, and if you want it to be yours', you'd better hurry up..."
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:03 PM   #59
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If I read the article correctly (no discernable benefit for those over 65 or women, period), I think it pretty much confirms that my 93.5-year old MIL (lifelong non-smoker, normal BP, no diabetes, normal weight, no cardiovascular events for her or family) does not need to be taking a statin even though her cholesterol is 300 and always has been.

I sent her a copy of the article. We'll see what she decides to do. I would be very, very upset at the doctor who prescribed it a year ago if she suffers side effects and becomes ill from the drug when she has no other health problems.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:27 PM   #60
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I thought the discussion of inflammation and its relation to CV disease was the most interesting part of the article and we are not discussing any of that in this thread. It sounded like the ability of statins to reduce inflammation was actually more important than the cholesterol reduction itself and maybe that's why Zetia doesn't work because although it reduces cholesterol, it is not reducing inflammation and therefore not reducing CV disease. Dr. Nissen's (Cleveland Clinic) had some interesting comments.

Does anyone here get their CRP (C-reactive protein) tested to determine the level of systemic inflammation? Is the medical community moving toward using this number on a wider scale to determine risk?

Do we know what is the average cholesterol level of people who have heart attacks and what is the average cholesterol level of people who don't have heart attacks? Is there much difference? Do more people with low good cholesterol have heart attacks than people with high bad cholesterol?
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