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Old 09-30-2012, 01:18 AM   #21
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I have had some success with low carb but don't think that's the entire answer. Too easy to fall off of that diet.
Right. It's not low carb; it's low bad carbs and sensible good carbs.
Google: good carbs bad carbs for articles & lists of examples and how to tell the difference.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:50 AM   #22
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Some years back I was misdiagnosed with Crohn's Disease (it was actually IBS as I tried to tell the doctors). Following their advice, diets, and noxious prescriptions, I only got worse, and came all too close to being hospitalized and losing half my bowel. At that point I put my foot down, refused further treatment, and began the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) (NAYY) - strictly by the book at first, and then modified as I began to heal and find out what worked for me and what didn't. Now I know my triggers, can eat pretty much whatever I want, and haven't had a serious flare since.

For the past decade I've been on a diet devised specifically for chronic/intractable pain patients (also NAYY), and since I've been on it, I've been able to lose & maintain weight (which I wasn't able to do on other diets), and it has reduced my pain (or perception of it) to a noticeable degree. This too I've had to modify slowly as I was able to identify various triggers and items that work better than others for me.

What I've taken away from all this is that while some diets can be good starting points, for most people, that's all they are - starting points. They need to be customized just like exercise programs. Now I'm finding I also have to make certain aging modifications as well.

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Old 09-30-2012, 10:10 AM   #23
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Thank you, Tyro!
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:20 AM   #24
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I love coconut water.
I've got to give it a try. I don't do bananas much anymore, so I'm missing some of that potassium intake.

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Right. It's not low carb; it's low bad carbs and sensible good carbs.
Google: good carbs bad carbs for articles & lists of examples and how to tell the difference.
I used to think this was all BS, but after years of frustration, I finally tried it. It works!

I was addicted to the sugar blood spike. There I was chowing on my "fat free" cookies, thinking I was doing everything right.

Wrong.

One of the best gadgets I have in the kitchen is a bread maker. I make my own 100% whole grain bread. I find that 1/2 piece of that is as satisfying as 2 pieces of white bread garbage. And amazingly it lasts over a week for the two of us and doesn't spoil, despite the lack of preserves.

Gone are all the "fat free" treats full of the liquid sugars. Cereal? Only occasionally, and then something like 100% whole wheat with bran squares, or "Uncle Sam" classic.

Lentils are on the list for sure, even though a low-carber would cringe at the thought of them.

We've substituted baked yams for the old white potatoes and found out we love them! Bad childhood memories of aunt Sue's sugary sweet potato casserole with marshmallows are a distant memory. The food can stand on its own and is chock full of good nutrition.

And those are just examples, there's so much more out there to try.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:57 AM   #25
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What I've taken away from all this is that while some diets can be good starting points, for most people, that's all they are - starting points. They need to be customized just like exercise programs. Now I'm finding I also have to make certain aging modifications as well.

Tyro
It seems to be a feature of american, marketing influenced culture that we go for extreme, "no other way to eat" solutions. If it doesn't have a name and a book and some guy on tv talking it up, it stands little chance.

Then once we have chosen our patented route to salvation, we get out and try to sell it to everyone else. Going on a diet seems to have a lot in common with religious conversion. We even use a similar name for our leaders-guru. Leaders of various sects have feuds over details that could not possibly be scientifically known to apply to most people. They have blogs where their acolytes hang on their every word, and applaud when they slam a different church. "Heathens! Apostates! What violence they are wreaking on themselves and their innocent children! Meat, barf! Or Wheat, barf! How terrible!

Internet boards seem to lend themselves to be being dominated by very enthusiastic, verbally prolific but not necessarily subtle people.

Ha
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #26
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It seems to be a feature of american, marketing influenced culture that we go for extreme, "no other way to eat" solutions.
Ha
Just like our politics too.

My diet changes over the last few years required a lot of effort due to having to "switch sides" or "be born again" to use your next analogy.

However, the experience has left me open to new ideas, and suspicious of just about everything out there. Ultimately, I think we just have to find our own way.

BTW, if I go to extremes and evangelize about anything, it would be to think twice about eating "predigested" food. Anything that's white (or colored from white), sugary and in a plastic wrapper should be viewed with extreme caution. I.e., just about anything in a convenience store.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:15 PM   #27
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I've got to give it a try. I don't do bananas much anymore, so I'm missing some of that potassium intake.
Perfect. You'll only need one a day to get plenty. I like vita coco and naked, some of the other ones are made from concentrate or have a cooked sugar/caramel undertone, although I dont necessarily dislike it. All the canned stuff I've tried was bad, but some people like them.

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I was addicted to the sugar blood spike. There I was chowing on my "fat free" cookies, thinking I was doing everything right.
And there I was as well. Now I mutter "Rocks are all natural, fat and gluten free. But don't eat them either."

Quote:
Lentils are on the list for sure, even though a low-carber would cringe at the thought of them.
See, I eat lentils and beans too. Not every day or even more than once a week, but they're on the menu.

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We've substituted baked yams for the old white potatoes and found out we love them! Bad childhood memories of aunt Sue's sugary sweet potato casserole with marshmallows are a distant memory. The food can stand on its own and is chock full of good nutrition.
I've got one for you. Rub sweets with olive oil and salt and bake until done. Split, stick some chopped bacon, green onions, irish butter, some carnitas or barbacoa, a little yogurt and a drizzle of bbq sauce or sriracha. Dress it out like a loaded baked. I get the carnitas or barbacoa premade, and I used a nice locally produced mandarin orange bbq sauce last time I did it. Good nutrition, especially vitamins a and c, tastes great.

http://www.dmagazine.com/~/media/0_A...116T1728374865

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It seems to be a feature of american, marketing influenced culture that we go for extreme, "no other way to eat" solutions. If it doesn't have a name and a book and some guy on tv talking it up, it stands little chance.
I think the problem is that most people don't know what is and isnt good for them to eat, and in fact I think its safe to say that most people would say that you shouldn't eat fat and that doing so will make you fatter. That doesn't seem to be true or supported by any actual science.

I think the other problem is that diets are bland and boring and so are most structured exercise programs, and both are pretty unfulfilling. My diet isnt bland or boring, and my exercise program is just getting off my ass and doing stuff I need to do anyhow, only as difficult and as hand-operated as possible.

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Internet boards seem to lend themselves to be being dominated by very enthusiastic, verbally prolific but not necessarily subtle people.
Now where the **** will we find someone like that around here?

Nice to see you Ha...
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:52 PM   #28
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Nice to see you Ha...
Et tu, Bunny. I congratulate you on coming through a hard time not only intact but rarin' to rumble! Coming out of my divorce I mostly just felt like crying.

Ha
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:02 PM   #29
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I've got one for you. Rub sweets with olive oil and salt and bake until done. Split, stick some chopped bacon, green onions, irish butter, some carnitas or barbacoa, a little yogurt and a drizzle of bbq sauce or sriracha. Dress it out like a loaded baked. I get the carnitas or barbacoa premade, and I used a nice locally produced mandarin orange bbq sauce last time I did it. Good nutrition, especially vitamins a and c, tastes great.

http://www.dmagazine.com/~/media/0_A...116T1728374865
Holy cow that sounds good! We're going to give that a try ASAP. Thanks for the idea and pointer.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:13 PM   #30
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Then once we have chosen our patented route to salvation, we get out and try to sell it to everyone else.
There's no fanatic like a convert. (self included)
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:35 PM   #31
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Et tu, Bunny. I congratulate you on coming through a hard time not only intact but rarin' to rumble! Coming out of my divorce I mostly just felt like crying.
Mike, I did that once for about 3 minutes, stopped feeling sorry for myself and the next day got my wife to sign most everything over to me in a post nup. Then I wasn't anywhere near as sad.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:19 PM   #32
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CFB, I came to the same conclusion you did about 3 years ago, just before I retired. My health was not the best, even though I thought I was eating pretty healthy (you know, following the standard diet advice (cut back on fats, eat lots of whole grain bread and pasta, etc) that I now know is all wrong. After reading the actual studies and reading lots of information like this:

http://chriskresser.com/9-steps-to-p...ont-eat-toxins

I decided to make some major changes in my diet. Like you, I now eat basically "real food".........almost no processed food (and that includes pasta and bread, since flour is highly processed). Healthy fats (coconut oil, olive oil, pastured butter) are fine, all vegetables are fine (I grow a big vegetable garden), no limits on red meat (especially grain-fed) and seafood. Basically, if it comes in a box or a package, with a list of ingredients on the side, I don't eat it. I don't limit myself at all on the quanitity of food that I eat..........if it's real food, I eat as much as I want (I do not count calories). After eating this while for a while, my weight came down, blood pressure came down, blood test markers all improved.......I feel great, and am healthier than I have been in long time. I take zero prescription meds.

As you say, this is not a "diet"..........it's a healthier way of eating for life. I wish I would have started eating this way years earlier than I did.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #33
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Mike, I did that once for about 3 minutes, stopped feeling sorry for myself and the next day got my wife to sign most everything over to me in a post nup. Then I wasn't anywhere near as sad.
How did you do it? .38, .45, 9mm?
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:08 PM   #34
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CFB, I came to the same conclusion you did about 3 years ago, just before I retired. My health was not the best, even though I thought I was eating pretty healthy (you know, following the standard diet advice (cut back on fats, eat lots of whole grain bread and pasta, etc) that I now know is all wrong.
I think people would make good decisions if they had the right information, but the information most people have is 100% backwards.

I dutifully stopped drinking full fat milk 25 years ago, but drank more of the fat free because it wasn't as fulfilling. Switched from butter to margarine. Ate "whole grain" and "fat free" products for years. I stopped eating eggs, joined everyone in pooh poohing the coconut oil that was on movie theater popcorn, and avoided red meat like the plague. Stupid.

I actually just followed what I've been feeding my cats and dogs. I buy canned cat food thats basically just fish with taurine and other cat essentials tossed in. I put one cat down at 20+ last year and have a pair of 18.5 year olds still kicking around. I made my own dog food for years out of ground meat with a small amount of vegetables and a little brown rice, and for years I've fed them grain free premium foods. They're all going to outlive their hearing, teeth and knee joints.

So this "diet" is apparently functional cross species!
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:52 PM   #35
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Beta Blockers Might Not Prevent Heart Attack and Stroke, Says Study in JAMA - ABC News

Appears that the medication I was on to reduce my BP and reduce the chances of a stroke or heart attack does neither, just like statins reduce cholesterol but have zero effect on heart attacks and life expectancy.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:43 AM   #36
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I now fit in the same size clothes I wore as a senior in high school, 32" waist and an athletic cut medium top fits me fine. Now I need to buy more clothes again...

I haven't weighed them, but my dogs have all visibly lost weight (a good thing!) since I cut the grains and starches from their food and went back to walking them a half mile a day each, even though their little legs are sore...they enjoy it a lot!

I also have two ~18 year old cats, and the male cat was so fat he didn't even walk, he just dragged his stomach around. After dropping the kibble and switching them to just fish canned food, he lost all of the weight and looks like a regular sized cat now. I also put his food downstairs on the opposite side of the house from where he likes to sleep, so he has to take a little walk to eat.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:07 PM   #37
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So did you see the study that showed that statins don't do anything other than mess up your liver? The study determined that statins didn't change the rate of heart attacks or help you live longer.
Can you point us to that study? I have heard it mentioned several times but no one has ever been able to show it to me
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #38
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Can you point us to that study? I have heard it mentioned several times but no one has ever been able to show it to me
I don't know if this is it or not. (Citation at bottom of page)
Statins for Heart Disease Prevention (Without Prior Heart Disease) | The NNT

The consensus from what I read looking for this seems to be that statins are more useful in preventing subsequent heart attacks, but may have little or no value in preventing first heart attacks.

The thing about studies is that there are almost always other studies that refute them, and studies can be as bad as polls, depending on how they're conducted. There's often too much pre$$ure put on finding certain results than in finding the facts & truth.

Edit: Just found this too:
http://adifferentkindofdoctor.blogsp...t-attacks.html
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:24 PM   #39
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I don't know if this is it or not. (Citation at bottom of page)
Statins for Heart Disease Prevention (Without Prior Heart Disease) | The NNT
Thanks for posting this. I looked around, it is a very sophisticated site by highly qualified people.

One comment specifically about the statin question. Some doctors claim that the real variable that controls HD risk is LDL particle number. It is possible that if only patients with high LDL partcle number were treated, the benefits of statins might be greater. I don't know the evidence behind this assertion, for or against.

For anyone who has had Drs' questions about their LDL-C, I did an experiment on myself that I think is at least a qualified positive for lifestyle LDL lowering.

My HDL had always been very high, my triglycerides quite low, but my LDL-C had crept up to where statins were being suggested. I got the Liposcience NMR particle test- paid for it my self. My particle number was fairly high- around 75th percentile for risk- according to their information. With this as a baseline, I made one change. I emphasized regularity in my exercise routine, rather than intensity. I got this idea from papers by William E Kraus, et al.

I retested 6 months later, no change in diet, and my LDL particle number had dropped by 18%. Enough to put me in the 50th percentile for risk by particle count. This same regime dropped my small dense particles to a very low level, but the significance of this is disputed.

Currently I have continued the exercise as above, but also am trying one new thing- much less red meat, still in the context of a very low carb, high fat diet. I'll get tested again in a month or two and see what has happened.

Ha
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:47 PM   #40
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One comment specifically about the statin question. Some doctors claim that the real variable that controls HD risk is LDL particle number. It is possible that if only patients with high LDL partcle number were treated, the benefits of statins might be greater. I don't know the evidence behind this assertion, for or against.
Here's another good one. The take-away from this is that high cholesterol simply isnt a problem. While many posit that high cholesterol causes problems, this data seems to suggest the exact opposite, and more or less concludes that your cholesterol level is a huge red herring.

High levels of cholesterol said better for longevity

Be interesting to see how well your lowered red meat experiment works. I eat a freaking ton of the stuff and my blood work is the best its ever been.

The hard part with dietary studies is that unless you have had the "patients" locked up and monitor what they do and don't eat or do, you're taking what they tell the study operators as gospel, and you're not getting the full picture. Couple that with wanting a particular outcome and gaming the data you do have to get there, and I personally came to the conclusion that most of it was bullshit. Reinforced by doing pretty much the exact opposite of what modern dietary guidelines tell you to do, losing weight, and having all of my bloodwork come back perfect.
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