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Old 10-17-2012, 02:50 PM   #41
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Not trying to convice anyone. Just reporting something.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:02 PM   #42
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Not trying to convice anyone. Just reporting something.
Same here.

If anything, my primary message in this thread is "Don't listen to anyone else, because they're probably wrong. Do what works for you. This worked for me."
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:55 PM   #43
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Excellent thread!

I have posted pics of foods I've made from scratch, using fresh ingredients or canned versions of basic foods (beans & mushrooms for example). Some look pretty decadent.
I've bored you all with photos of my container farm. We get a lot of fresh veggies from that operation. I grow fresh basil and oregano and small amounts of greens, year round. We all know about the ridiculous prices of organic vegetables and herbs at the store. Mine aren't sprayed.
We don't buy processed "full meal" type foods. I avoid all high sodium products or just use less in the recipe. It's all about portion control.
I do not use salt to cook or season at the plate when I've used a canned item.
I use real butter. Not too much, not too little. We both love olive oil.
I don't own a deep fryer.

We love pizza. Pizza is supposedly a "bad" food. Baloney!

Our homemade pizzas are covered with a sauce I made from tomatoes that I or my friends grew. I use low salt tomato paste.
I drain the fat from all meats I use on pizza.
I buy high quality mozzerella cheese in 5 lb bags. It has very few additives.
Every pizza we make has olive oil drizzled all over it (a little trade secret )

Mr B eats cookies...and potato chips...and Twizzlers. Whenever he wants. He orders french fries when we are out. Let him enjoy that.
I will eat a small sample of his junk food perhaps once a week. My junk food is usually cherry tomatoes, honey wheat pretzels, fig newtons, fruits, tortilla chips and cheese.

I compensate by making our home meals well rounded and delicious. Portions are kept small. I do a lot of packaging of leftovers for the freezer.

It ain't rocket science.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:19 AM   #44
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Be interesting to see how well your lowered red meat experiment works. I eat a freaking ton of the stuff and my blood work is the best its ever been.
My current doctor is of the opinion that cholesterol is more a factor of genetics than diet. He looks at other numbers, promotes reasonable exercise, not smoking, imbibing in moderation.... are about the best we can do to keep ourselves healthy. So much is out of our control. He's pretty laid back.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:47 AM   #45
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Excellent thread!

We love pizza. Pizza is supposedly a "bad" food. Baloney!

Our homemade pizzas are covered with a sauce I made from tomatoes that I or my friends grew. I use low salt tomato paste.
I drain the fat from all meats I use on pizza.
I buy high quality mozzerella cheese in 5 lb bags. It has very few additives.
Every pizza we make has olive oil drizzled all over it (a little trade secret )

+1 While I generally agree with LCHF type diets and eating non-processed foods, may be there is some life for me afterall on the carb side.
For me, giving up pizza would be equivalent to giving up bacon
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #46
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I did an experiment on myself that I think is at least a qualified positive for lifestyle LDL lowering...(regular exercise)... I retested 6 months later, no change in diet, and my LDL particle number had dropped by 18%.

Currently I have continued the exercise as above, but also am trying one new thing- much less red meat, still in the context of a very low carb, high fat diet. I'll get tested again in a month or two and see what has happened.

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Be interesting to see how well your lowered red meat experiment works. I eat a freaking ton of the stuff and my blood work is the best its ever been.

The hard part with dietary studies is that unless you have had the "patients" locked up and monitor what they do and don't eat or do, you're taking what they tell the study operators as gospel, and you're not getting the full picture.
The nice thing about an N=1 study like Ha is doing is that you control the adherence to the protocol and you are testing the approach in the real target environment - your own body. To the extent that the results of some of these approaches vary among individuals you will find out how it works for you. Readily available blood testing makes this fairly easy.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:59 AM   #47
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My current doctor is of the opinion that cholesterol is more a factor of genetics than diet. He looks at other numbers, promotes reasonable exercise, not smoking, imbibing in moderation.... are about the best we can do to keep ourselves healthy. So much is out of our control. He's pretty laid back.
I completely agree with your doctor. Good food and good exercise and not smoking and drinking moderately is (IMO) 90% of the battle. I'm pretty sure the pills that adjust the blood test results don't actually do much as far as health and longevity, especially when you factor in the side effects.

My doctor feels the same way. I hooked my dad up with the same doctor. First thing he asked my dad was "Why are you taking blood pressure pills? Your BP is actually a little low". My dad quit taking it, and he's like a new man. Used to take 2-3 naps a day and struggled to get through his daily workout, but not anymore.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:02 AM   #48
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+1 While I generally agree with LCHF type diets and eating non-processed foods, may be there is some life for me afterall on the carb side.
For me, giving up pizza would be equivalent to giving up bacon
I eat pizza. Maybe once a week, usually the last slice leftover when I have a houseful of kids playing video games.

One of the best pizza's I ever had, and it'll sound weird, was a whole wheat crust with shredded carrots and raisins and sundried tomato sauce. Second best was a whole wheat crust with a garlic white sauce, carmelized onions and little neck clams. Oh my god, that sauce is full of fat! Yay!

So far this week I dropped my body fat % into the 22% range, while adding several pounds. Here comes the muscle!
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:11 PM   #49
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Ah maybe this is the thread to post my previous week's adventure. At my yearly physical last July I tipped the scales at a modest 255. I'm 56 yo and 5'10". That may sound like a lot but I'm enormously-boned. Plus I work out at the gym twice a week and do 75 minutes a night on the ellipitical so I'm convinced it's mostly or partially muscle. Anyway my GP had the crazy idea that I should come back in 3 months to make sure I wasn't still gaining weight. I weighed myself on October 5th, a week before my appt. and discovered that I had gained an additional 10 pounds of muscle. I have this phobia about being yelled at by my doctor so I called up and had my appointment delayed by a week. I then proceeded to not eat for a week. Those of you who play this game know that by emptying your colon and avoiding sodium you can drop 10 pounds in a week. Anyway this worked but by Wednesday whenever I stood up I felt like I was going to faint. Went to the Doc and he was pleased that I hadn't gained any weight. The problem was, even after I started eating again, I still felt like I was gonna faint. Feel better now though. Next appt. in 3 months.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:37 PM   #50
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Ah maybe this is the thread to post my previous week's adventure. At my yearly physical last July I tipped the scales at a modest 255. I'm 56 yo and 5'10". That may sound like a lot but I'm enormously-boned. Plus I work out at the gym twice a week and do 75 minutes a night on the ellipitical so I'm convinced it's mostly or partially muscle. Anyway my GP had the crazy idea that I should come back in 3 months to make sure I wasn't still gaining weight. I weighed myself on October 5th, a week before my appt. and discovered that I had gained an additional 10 pounds of muscle. I have this phobia about being yelled at by my doctor so I called up and had my appointment delayed by a week. I then proceeded to not eat for a week. Those of you who play this game know that by emptying your colon and avoiding sodium you can drop 10 pounds in a week. Anyway this worked but by Wednesday whenever I stood up I felt like I was going to faint. Went to the Doc and he was pleased that I hadn't gained any weight. The problem was, even after I started eating again, I still felt like I was gonna faint. Feel better now though. Next appt. in 3 months.
Maybe you should get him to send you for a dexa-scan for fat which gives he gold standard read on what is what in your body composition. Although what you did worked, you might have lost some muscle too, and it surely was not fun.

Ha
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:24 PM   #51
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Don't be too ready to damn statins. A good discussion of the Cochrane review mentioned in one of the links above can be found here: Science-Based Medicine Statins – The Cochrane Review
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:47 PM   #52
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My current doctor is of the opinion that cholesterol is more a factor of genetics than diet. He looks at other numbers, promotes reasonable exercise, not smoking, imbibing in moderation.... are about the best we can do to keep ourselves healthy. So much is out of our control. He's pretty laid back.
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The nice thing about an N=1 study like Ha is doing is that you control the adherence to the protocol and you are testing the approach in the real target environment - your own body. To the extent that the results of some of these approaches vary among individuals you will find out how it works for you. Readily available blood testing makes this fairly easy.
Even though anecdotes are lousy evidence, my person experience is consistent with a genetic explanation. I weigh 105 pounds. I exercise a lot. I spent a couple of years experimenting with what to eat. Left untreated my bad cholesterol is way, way too high and my good too low. It has been this way for more than 30 years, whether I am fat or thin. My levels do not seem to be effected much by what I eat, though I can improve the numbers a little bit with an extremely low fat diet. But such a diet is so unpalatable to me that I can't stick with it. A high fat/low carb diet did not seem to have any positive or negative effect as compared to a "balanced" diet.

I reviewed the research, and given that I have no evidence of harm from taking statins and I have a large number of risk factors for heart disease, I take the statins and hope they provide some protection. No evidence of heart disease yet, which is positive given my mother died at 39 of heart disease and my father had his first heart attack at 43 and died of heart disease at 63. My skinny baby brother has a stent. My cousin just had a bypass. Not a pretty picture.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:54 PM   #53
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Martha, you don't need me to agree with you, but I do. A study that shows no or minimal effect of an intervention may be not very meaningful for some of those individuals, even some of them who were subjects in the study. It comes down to Bayesian reasoning. To know where you stand, you have to know what class you fall into. Something like statins can help some people a lot, save their lives. Other people will live on, with or without statins. And some will get serious illnesses from taking the drug.

You may be a very clear case of where it is much better to take the drug. Unfortunately the world is full of true believers. Everyone should take this drug! Put it in the water! Then others will say, it kills, and those it doesn't kill didn't get any good from it anyway!

All a form of craziness, albeit a common form.

Ha
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:57 AM   #54
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Nobody does a better job of analyzing "studies" and the reporting of such things as Tom Naughton; for instance: Fat Head This Is What We’re Up Against, Part Six

Another interesting project to follow is Gary Taubes & Peter Attia's Nutrition Science Initiative
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #55
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Don't be too ready to damn statins. A good discussion of the Cochrane review mentioned in one of the links above can be found here: Science-Based Medicine Statins The Cochrane Review
Excellent article. Good food for thought.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:27 PM   #56
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And from Tom Naughton: Fat Head Bad News For Statins Is Good News, Fat Head Another A-Salt on Science and Fat Head Still Another A-Salt On Science
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #57
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Mr. Naughton is a comedian, is he not? Why should we take medical advice from a comedian? I don't mean to be a wise guy. I really want to know what qualifies him to speak on medical issues.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:04 PM   #58
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Mr. Naughton is a comedian, is he not? Why should we take medical advice from a comedian? I don't mean to be a wise guy. I really want to know what qualifies him to speak on medical issues.
(I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved in this conversation.)

Yikes! I don't even know how to begin to respond but will (not being that bright) attempt to do so anyway. First, Tom is not offering medical advice. He is merely analyzing what the people who should know are saying. In any event, I was unaware that Comedians were somehow lacking in intelligence and could not be trusted to provide us with insight. I had, until now, thought the opposite.

If you are listening to the current authorities on nutritional information, let me suggest that Tom is not the "comedian" here. For instance, how can the USDA -- whose only purpose is to promote the sale of agricultural products -- be allowed to determine the "perfect" diet (read the food pyamid... or that comedic replacement the "Plate.") Hegemony? And don't you sometimes wonder how the American Diabetic Association continues to get by recommending treatment for Diabetes 2 food that has been proven to cause early death in those that suffer from the affliction? Obesity epidemic? Yeah. Why didn't we have such a thing before the Government got involved in our "health." Before you attack those folks who have worked hard to earn a good reputation in this field, you should do your homework. Perhaps you could start with: Art & Science of Low Carb Living AND (note emphasis) Why We Get Fat. That should get you started but if not, I can provide much more fodder to your groundwork.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #59
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My current doctor is of the opinion that cholesterol is more a factor of genetics than diet. He looks at other numbers, promotes reasonable exercise, not smoking, imbibing in moderation.... are about the best we can do to keep ourselves healthy. So much is out of our control. He's pretty laid back.
The whole notion that high cholesterol causes heart disease is false. Do your own research, but here is one place to start: Heart Disease / Cholesterol . Over half the people that die of heart attacks have so-called "normal" blood cholesterol levels.

Inflammation is probably the major cause of heart disease, and there are many things you can do to reduce inflammation in your body (eat the right foods, reduce stress, etc). More info. on that here: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-...heart-disease/
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #60
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Inflammation is probably the major cause of heart disease, and there are many things you can do to reduce inflammation in your body (eat the right foods, reduce stress, etc). More info. on that here: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-...heart-disease/
See also: The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.How to reduce inflammation with food

BTW, a Blog that should provide a lot of motivation to those looking to lose weight is found here:http://www.awlr.org/blog.html
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