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Old 10-26-2012, 07:36 AM   #141
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Her is another view of the Look AHEAD Trial (the one I was waiting for, actually):

Fat Head » Another ‘Heart-Healthy’ Diet Study Fails

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BINGO! It wasn’t losing weight that failed to prevent cardiovascular disease, it was losing weight on the ADA’s crappy low-fat, calorie-restricted diet. If participants were indeed consuming 30% fat and 15% protein, that leaves 55% of their calories from carbohydrates – just what a diabetic needs, eh? Hope Warshaw would approve.

Diabetics are three to four times more likely to die of heart disease than non-diabetics. Thanks to the arterycloggingsaturatedfat theory, this sad fact causes so-called experts like the medical wizards at the ADA to recommend exactly the wrong diet. The logic goes like this: Well, since we know a fatty diet causes heart disease and diabetics are prone to heart disease, they need to eat a low-fat diet.

They can’t seem to bring themselves to consider an obvious alternate theory: What if diabetics are prone to heart disease because high blood sugar causes heart disease? What if heart disease begins with damage to a coronary artery and high levels of blood glucose can cause that damage?

If you look at it that way, then it’s clear that diabetics absolutely, positively should not be eating the kind of high-carb, low-fat diet the ADA recommends. They should be eating a diet that keeps their blood sugar down – every day, every hour. Since fat is the only macronutrient that doesn’t raise blood sugar, that would be a moderate protein, high-fat diet.
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Why was a psychiatrist chairing the study? Probably because the NIH believes overeating is a psychological problem. People are gluttons, being gluttons makes them fat, and being fat turns them into diabetics. Then they get heart disease because they’re diabetics. Cure their gluttony with intensive dietary counseling, and they’ll lose weight and suffer fewer cardiovascular problems as a result.

Except it didn’t work out that way, did it? After 11 years and $220 million spent, this large study failed to show that the diet promoted by the ADA, the USDA and countless doctors prevents heart disease in a population prone to heart disease. With that in mind, perhaps the psychiatrist can come up with an explanation for this quote in the Washington Post article:

"The results will probably surprise many physicians and patients but are not likely to change the advice they give and get."

Well, of course not. You wouldn’t want failure to inspire a change in your beliefs, much less in your strategy.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:45 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by W2R View Post
Wow, 900+ calories of liver and onions? You sure must like them.
Well, yeah, I do.

Again, calories don't count. If they did, I would be more concerned with the calories from Alcohol (385) which does nothing nutritionally -- serving only to overwork my Liver -- rather than calories that my body needs to survive (as opposed to storing away for some unknown "other" time).
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:00 AM   #143
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Essentially, he explains the move to low-fat as coming from errors in logic, questionable studies, and, of course, politics.

Fruit contains the antidote to sugar - fiber.

1.) Ingested sugar in the form of fructose gets made into fat. A high sugar diet is a high fat diet.

And 2.) When the body metabolizes fructose it somehow short circuits the process by which the digestive organs tell our brain we are full. Thus, we eat a lot more than we have to.

As I understand this, a high sugar diet is worse than a high fat diet since sugar gets converted into body fat just as ingested fat can do, but the sugar digestion (unlike fat digestion) does not signal the brain that we are full, so we end up eating even more and get even fatter.
True... and mostly politics.

Sugar is Sugar and Fiber does not destroy it. Beside there are much "healthier" ways to get Fiber into your system.

Dietary Fat and Fat manufactured by the body are completely different. Dietary fat is used immediately while body fat is stored -- and never the two shall meet (yeah, not technically correct but close enough). This, BTW, is also the similar difference in dietary cholesteral and that manufactured by the body.

The lack of satiety triggers is true of all carbohydrates.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:55 AM   #144
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here are a couple of places to start your research:

My 5 Low-Carb Mistakes And How Nutritional Ketosis Rescued Me From Them by Jimmy Moore
...
12 Healthy High-Fat Foods Perfect For Nutritional Ketosis by Jimmy Moore
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:34 PM   #145
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Don't forget that there is now a giant low-carb promotion machine. Who knows what Jimmy Moore's receipts are, but judging from the amount of advertising, they are very substantial.

I listen to many of his podcasts- all of them that feature scientists and MDs, few of them that feature low carb bloggers/promoters. If some guest who has done years of research starts to stray into, "well I am not sure about the results of eating all that fat", Jimmy quickly papers that over. Americans love to be marketed to, even though they usually do not realize this. So they also like that their messages be clear and have no off topic or contrary information. Examples are near at hand.

Ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:52 AM   #146
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White House Cookbook And Longevity In The 1800s

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I had a great find at the used bookstore today. It was an old copy of the White House Cook Book, which was copyrighted in 1887! It’s not in the best condition, but it includes photos of the first ladies as well as rooms in the White House. I perused some of the recipes and as expected, they have lots of fat – heavy cream, lard, you name it!
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... clearly people back then weren’t worried about butter, eggs and lard clogging their arteries and giving them heart disease. And why should they have been worried? Heart disease was rare. ... But even after doctors could properly diagnose heart attacks, the rate of heart-attack deaths didn’t take a sharp rise until the 1940s – when consumption of butter and lard was dropping.


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When I’ve pointed that out in previous posts, I’ve heard from lipophobes who insist that the only reason few people died of heart disease back in our lard-powered past is that they didn’t live long enough to die from a heart attack. “Of course people weren’t dying of heart disease!” they tell me. “Most people died before they turned 40!”

What they apparently believe is that most adults died sometime around age 40. That’s simply not true. They’re citing (without understanding) the average life expectancy in the 1800s. ...

In 1850, the average lifespan from birth for boys was only 38 years. But for boys who had already reached age 5 in 1850, the average lifespan was 55 years. For young men who were already age 20, the average was lifespan was 58 years, and for men who were already 40, the average was 66 years. Keep in mind those figures would include violent deaths, not just deaths from diseases.

By contrast, the average lifespan for a boy born in 1950 is listed at 65, but for a young man who was already 20 in 1950, it’s listed at 68 — just a few years older.



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Old 10-30-2012, 12:12 PM   #147
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This is so true. If people knew 30% of what they very confidently and loudly proclaim, the world would be a lot less boring.

Walk through a pre WW2 cemetary. You won't see 95% of headstones saying 62, you'll see a very wide spread. Lots of infants and children, a fair number of young women, plenty of young adults who succumbed to influenza, or TB, and even a good number of old men and women in their 80s and nineties.

There was very limited medical care of any usefulness until WW2. Digtalis for sure, and perhaps arsenic for syphyllis, aspirin and I am sure lots more, but to the best of my knowledge antibiotics did not make ther way into general civilian use until the 40s. Yet most of us had very old grandparents and even great-grandparents. My great-grandfather died in 1944 at age 96, his wife a few years later at 98. They lived together in their own home, with no live-in help. If they wanted to go somewhere they climbed aboard a streetcar, or got a ride from family members or a cab. Neither of them ever drove or owned a car. They cared for one of their adult children, who had picked up syphyllis in Europe during WW1. He himself lived well into his 70s, in spite of never having heard of Dr. Oz. On the other side of my family, I had a Grandfather who was born in 1864. I have been told that he only once saw a doctor in his life-in his mid 50s he had a very badly infected hand from a farm mishap. My Dad, after promising to pay, took him to the Doc who lanced it and soon he was well.

I have no idea why some people back then lived such long and healthy lives, but I do have confidence that MIs were in fact relatively rare. My pet idea is that it is not mainly diet at all, but a combination of culture and a great deal of what our modern gurus like to denigrate as "chronic cardio". These people, both men and women, rarely sat down.

Ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #148
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Though working hard on the farm all day doesn't really resemble spending an hour on an elliptical...

My maternal great-grandmother likely never gave a thought to how much fat or how many carbs she ingested.

She died of atherosclerosis. She was 89...
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #149
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I have no idea why some people back then lived such long and healthy lives, but I do have confidence that MIs were in fact relatively rare. My pet idea is that it is not mainly diet at all, but a combination of culture and a great deal of what our modern gurus like to denigrate as "chronic cardio". These people, both men and women, rarely sat down.

File this in the "Best E-R.org Advice" folder...
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:16 PM   #150
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I have no idea why some people back then lived such long and healthy lives, but I do have confidence that MIs were in fact relatively rare. My pet idea is that it is not mainly diet at all, but a combination of culture and a great deal of what our modern gurus like to denigrate as "chronic cardio". These people, both men and women, rarely sat down.

Ha

Ditto, I don't know what it was. Most of my grandparents and great grandparents lived into their late 70's or early 80's despite living and working in pit villages and all of them being heavy smokers.

My favorite was the great grandfather that I knew very well, as I used to run errands for him. He was a coal miner and was already in the reserves when WW I started so he served in France in the trenches from 1914 through to being discharged "60% disabled" in 1919. That was according to his military record that DW found on a trip to the national archives in Kew a few years ago. His record shows medical leaves for "normal" stuff such as dysentery & hemorrhoids, as well being gassed twice and gun shot wounds to the arm. He also won the Military Medal during one action re-supplying a gun post that had been isolated.

After the war he went back down the mine and in 1938 fell down a mineshaft resulting in having his right leg amputated just below the knee. He then had a "wooden leg" and used to walk with the aid of a cane.

Here is a photo of him on his 90th birthday (I'm the tall one at the back in blue V-neck sweater). He died aged 92.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:24 PM   #151
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Ditto, I don't know what it was. Most of my grandparents and great grandparents lived into their late 70's or early 80's despite living and working in pit villages and all of them being heavy smokers.

My favorite was the great grandfather that I knew very well, as I used to run errands for him. He was a coal miner and was already in the reserves when WW I started so he served in France in the trenches from 1914 through to being discharged "60% disabled" in 1919. That was according to his military record that DW found on a trip to the national archives in Kew a few years ago. His record shows medical leaves for "normal" stuff such as dysentery & hemorrhoids, as well being gassed twice and gun shot wounds to the arm. He also won the Military Medal during one action re-supplying a gun post that had been isolated.

After the war he went back down the mine and in 1938 fell down a mineshaft resulting in having his right leg amputated just below the knee. He then had a "wooden leg" and used to walk with the aid of a cane.

Here is a photo of him on his 90th birthday (I'm the tall one at the back in blue V-neck sweater). He died aged 92.
He was still a very vigorous looking man. I bet he was quite proud of all of you!

Ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:28 PM   #152
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He was still a very vigorous looking man. I bet he was quite proud of all of you!

Ha
Thanks, he was a great guy, and when he wanted quiet in a room full of kids he would rap his cane loudly against his leg and we'd promptly shut up as we were all in fear awe of him.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:28 PM   #153
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Though working hard on the farm all day doesn't really resemble spending an hour on an elliptical...

My maternal great-grandmother likely never gave a thought to how much fat or how many carbs she ingested.

She died of atherosclerosis. She was 89...
I agree with you about the differences from physical work and an hour doing cardio, likely with an HR moitor strapped to your chest, so you don't stray out of the "training zone".
Congrats to your G-Gma. Seems like the atherosclerosis did not affect her much.

Ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:33 PM   #154
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My grandparents were extremely active farmers in a small Iowa town with typical country nutrition. Granddad had adult onset diabetes and a stroke in his mid 60s and spent his last 10 years in a chair or bed. Grandma had was physically very healthy and happy but suffered from dementia starting in her mid 60s until she died in her early 80s, I don't think their health issues were caused or ameliorated by diet or activity.

Other grandfather worked in a mailroom his whole life; fatal heart attack at 54. Other grandmother died in her late 70s from "old age" in a nursing home--no specific illness, no dementia.

So who knows.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:06 PM   #155
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We never had headllines like this before either:

U.S. Military Says Kids Too Fat To Fight

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According to a nonpartisan national security organization of senior retired military leaders, one of the greatest threats the U.S. Military faces is … obesity. ... Being overweight or obese is the number one medical reason why young adults cannot enlist. When weight problems are combined with poor education, criminal backgrounds and other disqualifiers, an estimated 75 percent of young Americans could not serve in the military if they wanted to.”
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:56 PM   #156
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Plenty of thin men in Africa who might like a better paid war job than what they can find at home. Worked for the Romans, for a time anyway.

Outsourcing, it's the American Way.

Ha
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:30 PM   #157
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Plenty of thin men in Africa who might like a better paid war job than what they can find at home. Worked for the Romans, for a time anyway.

Outsourcing, it's the American Way.

Ha


If you served your time in the Roman army, 20 years I think, you got to be a citizen of Rome. As you say, it worked for about 2,000 years.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #158
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If you served your time in the Roman army, 20 years I think, you got to be a citizen of Rome.
Darn! Twenty years is a long time to try to survive, dodging hot oil poured from castle wall tops, as well as rains of arrows from the towers. I surely hope there was a hefty COLA'd pension to go with that.

Hmm... On the other hand, it may be worse having the fate of the peasants inside the walls that they tried to scale.

If it's not one thing, it's another! That's what one of my friends likes to conclude about almost anything.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:02 PM   #159
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Darn! Twenty years is a long time to try to survive, dodging hot oil poured from castle wall tops, as well as rains of arrows from the towers. I surely hope there was a hefty COLA'd pension to go with that.

Hmm... On the other hand, it may be worse having the fate of the peasants inside the walls that they tried to scale.

If it's not one thing, it's another! That's what one of my friends likes to conclude about almost anything.
Very true.

A few years ago they found some letters written, but had not been sent home, by soldiers who manned Hadrian's wall in Northumberland. (Wall built by the Romans from coast to coast in northern England to keep the Scots out). There was a lot of buzz at the time at what historical insights they might bring.

Turned out the letters were just as you'd expect from many soldiers guarding a border. It was boring, the food was terrible, and they wanted warm socks sending 'cos it was fr***ing freezing.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:18 PM   #160
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If it's not one thing, it's another!
Oh! Who could forget Gilda Radner AKA Rossana Rosaanna Danna. I tried to find a clip in which she said that... surprisingly could not. I did, however, find her Audition Tape.

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