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Old 10-31-2012, 01:46 AM   #161
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We never had headllines like this before either:
U.S. Military Says Kids Too Fat To Fight
One cynical response to that commentary would be that it was never a problem during conscription. Anyone deemed too fat to fight at recruit training got plenty of support and education with innovative weight-loss techniques and frequent followup.

When a neighbor's son joined the Marines on DEP a couple years ago, they took plenty of guys who were out of standards. Then they spent the next nine months on supervised 3x/week workouts before they were allowed to get on the plane to recruit training. That appeared to be sufficient motivation.

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A few years ago they found some letters written, but had not been sent home, by soldiers who manned Hadrian's wall in Northumberland.
There was a lot of buzz at the time at what historical insights they might bring.
... that military logistics and mail delivery haven't improved in over two millennia?
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:47 AM   #162
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Going back to the original topic... I think eating meat and vegetables instead of processed foods makes perfect sense, but what would someone like myself do? Even at 31 I still eat like a 5 year old. I dislike most vegetables. All I ever really eat in the form of vegetables are canned green beans, sweet peas, and corn. I've tried forcing myself to choke down tomatoes, cucumbers, broccoli, etc. but with no luck. I'm very much a meat and potatoes guy.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:54 AM   #163
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Going back to the original topic... I think eating meat and vegetables instead of processed foods makes perfect sense, but what would someone like myself do? Even at 31 I still eat like a 5 year old. I dislike most vegetables. All I ever really eat in the form of vegetables are canned green beans, sweet peas, and corn. I've tried forcing myself to choke down tomatoes, cucumbers, broccoli, etc. but with no luck. I'm very much a meat and potatoes guy.
If you have no "health" issues and you are happy with your weight, you need change nothing. Everyone's personal dietary requirements are different. However, they do change sometimes. That's why you need to be constantly vigil by having regular checkups... and step on the scale every few months..
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:22 AM   #164
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My health seems to be fine according to my numbers from my last physical. But I am overweight and could stand to lose about 40 lbs. I do workout most days of the week now and have lost about 25-30 lbs in the last year but I seemed to have stalled because of my eating.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:48 AM   #165
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But I am overweight and could stand to lose about 40 lbs.
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canned green beans, sweet peas, and corn... and potatoes
So you like the high carbohydrate vegetables. Yeah, the taste of Sweet (sugar) is a hard habit to break. I note that you like potatoes which, actually, have no taste. Wouldn't Cauliflower be an acceptable substitute?

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I do workout most days of the week now and have lost about 25-30 lbs in the last year but I seemed to have stalled because of my eating.
See my earlier post about exercise. And get your hands on any of the books I referenced.

In any event, you seem to have answered your own question --"but what would someone like myself do? " In order for things to be different, something has to change... you.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:58 AM   #166
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I've tried cauliflower once. I ate it, but had to force it. I thinks the it's just a texture thing or all mental. I guess the only good option is to keep working on forcing more vegetables.

My wife couldn't believe it last weekend when I cooked omelettes and instead of only ham and cheese, this time I added finely chopped sautéed mushroom and onion.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:12 AM   #167
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I've tried cauliflower once. I ate it, but had to force it. I thinks the it's just a texture thing or all mental. I guess the only good option is to keep working on forcing more vegetables.

My wife couldn't believe it last weekend when I cooked omelettes and instead of only ham and cheese, this time I added finely chopped sautéed mushroom and onion.
My suggestion of cauliflower was because, like eggs ... and potatoes, you can do some much with it. For instance:

Mock Mashed Potatoes (Cauliflower) Recipe (Do a Search -- there are a kagillion similar recipes on the Internet.)

Mushrooms and onions are good choices. Start there and gradually experiment with the other "acceptable" veggies.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:41 AM   #168
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Super Starch?

Introduction to Superstarch – Part I

Introduction to Superstarch – Part II

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My name is Ryan Flaherty and I am the founder of Prolific Athletes LLC, a sports performance training company based in Carlsbad, California, that specializes in teaching athletes of all levels to be fast and injury free. We train all types of athletes including professional athletes from the NFL, NBA, MLB, Olympic Track and Field athletes, NCAA All Americans, and high school athletes all the way down to middle school all-stars. Our facility is focused on two very important athletic principles, which are speed and injury prevention. ...
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... We also have a large NFL combine training program that prepares future NFL stars for the NFL combine and draft. I work with over 100 NFL players including: Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, and Vincent Jackson. ...
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Over the course of my career I have tried a lot of supplements. I’ve used whey protein, casein protein, egg protein, branch chain amino acids, glutamine, creatine monohydrate, waxy maize, pre-workout supplements…the list goes on and on. I am not a big proponent of supplement use with my athletes because it’s a slippery slope with the lack of research associated with a majority of these products. I emphasize getting their nutrients from food as opposed to using supplements and I preach high fat, low carbs, and eliminating sugar from their diets. Most recently, however, I have become a huge fan of Super Starch.
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I have about 20 NFL athletes that are currently using Super Starch. I train a NFL athlete for a total of 5 months throughout the year. ... A big misconception is that elite athletes don’t struggle with weight issues. I have professional athletes I train who have struggled with their weight for years. Most of these guys have a target weight that they have to be when they report to the NFL team they play for and if they fail to meet the weight expectation, they can either get released or fail their physical. I have actually seen the biggest benefit of Super Starch with the 300+ pound NFL athletes because it gives them an energy source that will keep them burning body fat while they train. This past summer I had a defensive tackle from a NFL team go from 340 to 315 pounds just by using Super Starch and removing all other supplements that contained sugar from his diet.
What do you see as the benefit of Super Starch for average people and their relatively more moderate exercise regimen?

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I think the benefits would be the exact same benefits as the athletes I work with: it’s convenience for people who don’t have the luxury of being able to time their meals with meetings, the fact that it will keep them burning fat and not spike insulin levels, and providing a steady carbohydrate energy source.
The manufacturer's home page for those interested in pursuing this further (I have no connection to them... in any way.):

Generation UCAN ® | Healthy Energy Powered by SuperStarch
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:02 AM   #169
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The big knob for weight loss (or gain, for that matter) is calories consumed. Period. You will never lose weight without a calorie deficit. There are limits, of course, in that a "starvation" diet will slow your metabolism, negating the benefits.

Having said that, "what" you eat has a lot to do with body composition and health. But it doesn't matter if you eat grass-fed beef and organic vegetables, if you consume more calories that you expend, you'll gain weight. It's harder to over-consume vegetables, though. (And I don't really consider corn or potatoes "vegetables", as such.) Try getting fat eating salad...

The primary reason to vegetables, and fruit if yoy have no metabolic challenges from sugar) is the micronutrient content, and fiber.

**Not to be construed as medical advice. See your doctor. Avoid driving until you know the effects. Look both ways before crossing the street. Stand up straight. Stop making faces, your face will freeze like that. Don't forget to floss. Say please and thank you. Your mileage may vary. If your erection lasts longer than four hours, call your neighbor...
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:12 AM   #170
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if you consume more calories that you expend, you'll gain weight.
This is true but not in the sense of obeying Newton's Third Law -- that requires a "closed System" and the human body is hardly that.

It is true in the sense that if your body stores those calories as body fat, you will gain weight. However, if your body uses those calories as fuel, you will not. That is what Taubes' book title is all about -- "Good Calories, Bad Calories."

If you eat the proper food, calories don't count.

For me personally (and YMMV) "proper" food does not include most carbohydrates.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:58 AM   #171
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If you eat the proper food, calories don't count.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:08 AM   #172
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Ok so you are me today... You were running late this morning and didn't bring your lunch to work, so you are forced to grab something from a fast food place nearby... What are you ordering?
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:27 AM   #173
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Ok so you are me today... You were running late this morning and didn't bring your lunch to work, so you are forced to grab something from a fast food place nearby... What are you ordering?
Water
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:32 AM   #174
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Ok so you are me today... You were running late this morning and didn't bring your lunch to work, so you are forced to grab something from a fast food place nearby... What are you ordering?
Earlier this year we stopped at a Wendy's while traveling and before we went in I decided was going to have a salad. While standing in line we had time to look at the menu on the board which calories etc listed against item.

The salads were far more calorific than one might expect. I had a burger, no fries.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:37 AM   #175
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... and have lost about 25-30 lbs in the last year but I seemed to have stalled because of my eating.
This article may give you some direction:

How to Add More Fat to Your Low Carb Diet for Nutritional Ketosis
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:38 AM   #176
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This is true but not in the sense of obeying Newton's Third Law -- that requires a "closed System" and the human body is hardly that.

It is true in the sense that if your body stores those calories as body fat, you will gain weight. However, if your body uses those calories as fuel, you will not. That is what Taubes' book title is all about -- "Good Calories, Bad Calories."

If you eat the proper food, calories don't count.

For me personally (and YMMV) "proper" food does not include most carbohydrates.
Nope...

Note that I didn't mention thermodynamics, because I agree that the human body is not a closed system. But you cannot consume 3000 kcal, and expend 2000 kcal, and not gain weight. If you're using calories as fuel, you're not at a calorie surplus...

Good Calories, Bad Calories: The Mythology of Obesity, or The Mythology of Gary Taubes? » Weightology

Whole Health Source: The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination

Thin Body of Evidence: Why I Have Doubts about Gary Taubes’s Why We Get Fat | Cross-Check, Scientific American Blog Network

Skeptic » eSkeptic » Wednesday, January 5th, 2011
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:50 AM   #177
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Nope...
Yeah, I am aware of these articles but am not dissuaded. I eat more (volume-wise) than I ever did while gaining weight -- sometimes to the point of great discomfort. The only difference between the two periods is the type of food. Well, that I have never, in three years, felt that "hungery" go-get-a-snack thing sending me to a bag of carbohydrates for relief.

But this is truly a YMMV thing and I am willing to concede that calories do, of course, count... just not in the manner you are championing.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:56 AM   #178
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Nope...

Note that I didn't mention thermodynamics, because I agree that the human body is not a closed system. But you cannot consume 3000 kcal, and expend 2000 kcal, and not gain weight. If you're using calories as fuel, you're not at a calorie surplus...

Whole Health Source: The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination
I am not an expert in this, other than to say that many of my numbers went better, but LDL went worse on a high saturated fat regime. I also lost meaningful weight, and I never even knew I was fat. I think it is true that eating high protein and fat, you tend to get less hungry. The food can be very good, but it doesn't support crazy hunger like higher carb meals do in some people, certainly true of me when I ate that way.

But I have talked several times to Taubes and to Stephan, and although Gary must have 20 years on S.G., most of us would much rather look like Gary. Stephan seems consumed by his issues with Gary, while Gary has left this far behind him. Maybe all those potatoes and roots make a person a bit peevish?

Also, Stephan's idea that obesity is because food is palatable is nuts. I never eat boring food, and I weigh less than in my sophomore year in high school. I also kind of get a laugh from his evil food scientist idea.

Ha
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:04 PM   #179
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... and I never even knew I was fat.
Same here and, worse, I didn't even believe when told I was. (My Cardiologist had to suggest it several times before it started to soak in.)
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:20 PM   #180
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I think it is true that eating high protein and fat, you tend to get less hungry.
I'm probably misinterpreting you, and I'm sure you know this, but just in case someone sees this in isolation and gets the wrong idea, high protein consumption is not a good idea. The ideal (at least for many of us) seems to be high fat, low carbohydrates, and moderate protein.

If you eat too much protein, the body converts the excess into carbs, so you're not doing yourself as much good as you may think you are.
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