Sugar, Science and Regulation

[Amethyst]

Some people do get into quasi-religious wars over nutrition topics, so no wonder.

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Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 I need to get some new reading glasses. At first glance looked like the title was "Sugar, Science and Religion".

[MRG]

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Originally Posted by Amethyst Some people do get into quasi-religious wars over nutrition topics, so no wonder.

+1
If you have ever been on the MFP board that's true.

Actually it is much more peaceful recently.

[bclover]

Lol, well I'm a baker so I guess that ranks me right up there with the anti christ.

Yep, i use sugar, also use butter, and "gasp" this Sunday at my superbowl party, I'll have pizza with Soda and beer.

I often wonder how we manage to make it pass age 30 with so many things "bad" for us.

[Amethyst]

Another baker here. And pizza + beer is one of God's chosen pairings.

Although I suspect the issue isn't so much "how did we survive this long" as "as our bodies wear out and become less efficient, what can we add, give up, or change to stay healthy?"

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Originally Posted by bclover Lol, well I'm a baker so I guess that ranks me right up there with the anti christ. Yep, i use sugar, also use butter, and "gasp" this Sunday at my superbowl party, I'll have pizza with Soda and beer. I often wonder how we manage to make it pass age 30 with so many things "bad" for us.

[Retirement Nerd]

I am not an anti-sugar person, but we definitely have way too much sugar in our day to day food items. Once I started monitoring my sugar intake, I lost almost 30 pounds in less than a year, and I did not reduce my over-all food consumption or change anything else about my lifestyle. I only reduced the amount of food I was eating that had high sugar carbs, and replaced those foods with lower carb options.

[audreyh1]

You can avoid a huge amount of sugar by eating non-processed an minimally processed foods. As soon as you start buying prepared foods, and the includes juices/sodas, bread, canned soups and many veggies, sauces, spreads - even things like peanut butter, breads, etc., there is a lot of added sugar. Even things like ketchup.

We read labels very carefully, and we do buy some canned/jarred foods, but look for things will minimal additives. You can buy peanut butter that is just peanuts and salt, you can find canned veggies that is just the veggie and salt. But you have to pay attention.

But you do have to pretty much give up on prepared foods if you want to avoid all this added sugar. It's more work, or just eat more simply!

[harley]

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Originally Posted by bjorn2bwild From my dispassionate point of view, the case against sugar is individual, lifestyle, and dose dependent - i.e., multifactorial. I can eat a high carbohydrate diet including lots of added sucrose with no detectable harm and did so for 5 1/2 decades. I feel fine while maintaining a stable, lean, body weight and vital signs well within healthy normal bounds - like blood pressure, heart rate, fasting glucose, blood lipids etc.

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Originally Posted by bclover Lol, well I'm a baker so I guess that ranks me right up there with the anti christ. Yep, i use sugar, also use butter, and "gasp" this Sunday at my superbowl party, I'll have pizza with Soda and beer. I often wonder how we manage to make it pass age 30 with so many things "bad" for us.

Well, if I was like Bjorn, and I'm assuming you too, I'd still be eating pizza and pasta and bread, although I was never really into the sweet stuff. So if you're built so that you can handle these things, drive on. But I and many others can't. Something we've been doing (besides eating too much in general) has caused us to gain weight, become diabetic, etc. For decades we've been told it was fats, too many calories, and not enough exercise. But science is now saying it's more likely carbs, especially sugars and breads. So yes, we're pushing back against the expert advice, which they can't easily change because it's easier to prescribe pills and meds than it is to say "we were wrong". But I would never recommend gov't regulation, since they could screw up a wet dream.

By the way, nothing at all wrong with butter, unless you're eating it with a carb like bread. Diet sodas are fine IMO, and since I'm going to die someday anyway, I'll continue drinking beer. But pizza is a thing of the past for me. Sad.

[Amethyst]

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Originally Posted by harley and not enough exercise. .

Well, that part still holds. No need to wait for "The Government" to tell one that exercise is necessary to health. I bet doctors have been saying this since Galen's time (ancient world).

[Chuckanut]

We all have different metabolisms. If we were all the same I am sure that the practice of medicine would be a lot easier and a lot cheaper.

Find what works for you and stick with it. All of the above is good information if you can use it to find what works for you.

[audreyh1]

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Originally Posted by harley By the way, nothing at all wrong with butter, unless you're eating it with a carb like bread. Diet sodas are fine IMO, and since I'm going to die someday anyway, I'll continue drinking beer. But pizza is a thing of the past for me. Sad.

Beer is pretty high in carbs, no? To me it seems like bread (liquid bread). But clearly you've figured out a balance that works for you.

[bjorn2bwild]

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Originally Posted by harley Well, if I was like Bjorn, and I'm assuming you too, I'd still be eating pizza and pasta and bread, although I was never really into the sweet stuff. So if you're built so that you can handle these things, drive on. But I and many others can't.

I would like to clarify the selection bias in my comment - the high carbohydrate diet that I described is dominant among my athletic peer group. I agree this would not be ideal for the more sedentary segment of the population. Also, I do adjust the carbohydrate load to match my level of fitness. Currently - moderate carbs, no added sugar.
I have tinkered with the low-carb ketogenic diet as an experiment, so far this has not worked well for me - perhaps two months was not enough time for adequate adaptation.

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by bjorn2bwild I would like to clarify the selection bias in my comment - the high carbohydrate diet that I described is dominant among my athletic peer group.

An excellent point. People whose work requires a lot of physical labor, elite athletes and others such as them have different needs from most people in modern society

[Bestwifeever]

The link in the OP points out that there is not much research about sugar's effect on health. I read conflicting reports on carbs, too. I am even reading reports that drinking eight glasses of water a day is a made-up thing and that gasp! breakfast maybe isn't the most important meal of the day (a concept first introduced by the cereal companies, apparently). And you can even get the health benefits of red wine by drinking plain old grape juice.

We can and should decide how something affects us individually and make changes accordingly if we want to (my plan is to become an elite athlete), but there probably isn't enough data for the government to tell everyone to make those changes.

[razztazz]

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Originally Posted by Chuckanut An excellent point. People whose work requires a lot of physical labor, elite athletes and others such as them have different needs from most people in modern society

Funny you should bring this one up. Just had a discussion with some medical people about the carbs/glycogen fetish among athletes most visibly "marathoners. The "Stack of pancakes before the big race will give you energy" Commandment that's been written in stone for so long has apparently been debunked along with so many other truths that just ain't so. It truly was just a fetish. If you believed it helped you last longer in the race then you'd last longer.

Personally, and I am not an extreme jock and think distance running is a form of OCD, I have noticed that, on those occasions when I go off the Low-Carb diet and treat myself to a couple nights of pasta, for a day or two afterwards my workouts seem a bit easier. And I mean noticeably so.

My conclusion is: The fetish for carb loading among some athletes is and has been bogus. But if you are low carbing on an ongoing basis, a shot of glycogen from a carb-bomb might produce a performance spike.

But as is said mucho here: Everybody's body is different

[Markola]

I just received my lipid panel results after 4 months of largely cutting out sugar and simple carbs (junk and processed food, soft drinks, rice, pasta, bread, desserts, etc.) and focusing on vegetables, fruits, meats, cheeses, eggs. One reason I made the changes was to lose a bit of weight I didn't like and the other was to see if my triglycerides would get back to normal range from being borderline high for at least 30 years since college.

Results and experiences after 4 months:

- Triglycerides are indeed in the normal range, as many others eating lower carb find. Yay!

- Healthy cholesterol/HDL is in normal range.

- Other Cholesterols are borderline high, which is new and not what I was aiming for. I suspect this is due to eating more eggs, dairy and red meats. Doc is not worried but my search and adjustments for the right diet for me continues, probably by eating more fish and chicken and maybe trimming eggs and cheese.

- I lost 14 pounds pretty effortlessly and without increasing exercise, hitting my target weight. I also eat as much as I want and have never been hungry. In fact, I don't have the urge to snack as much, because of my substantial, filling meals. I am a light, social drinker and haven't really made any adjustments there. I love Guinness and it is recommended for lower carb eaters, as is dry white wines.

- I feel better, probably because of less junk food and blood sugars spiking all over. I had one gourmet donut last month and felt ill afterward for the rest of the day. My body is already less-tolerant of that kind of "food" now. In fact, it instantly pivoted to craving the healthy stuff, so it has not been a hard transition at all.

- I like some of the substitute foods I've learned about even better than the originals, as does my wife. For example, cauliflower rice is delicious. I also bought a food spiralizer at Target for $10, which makes various tasty vegetable approximations of noodles.

So that is one 51 year old male's experiences to date and I will continue eating this way. If interested, the place I learned the most is https://www.verywell.com/low-carb-diets-4014695

[Bestwifeever]

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Originally Posted by Markola I just received my lipid panel results after 4 months of largely cutting out sugar and simple carbs (junk and processed food, soft drinks, rice, pasta, bread, desserts, etc.) and focusing on vegetables, fruits, meats, cheeses, eggs. One reason I made the changes was to lose a bit of weight I didn't like and the other was to see if my triglycerides would get back to normal range from being borderline high for at least 30 years since college. Results and experiences after 4 months: - Triglycerides are indeed in the normal range, as many others eating lower carb find. Yay! - Healthy cholesterol/HDL is in normal range. - Other Cholesterols are borderline high, which is new and not what I was aiming for. I suspect this is due to eating more eggs, dairy and red meats. Doc is not worried but my search and adjustments for the right diet for me continues, probably by eating more fish and chicken and maybe trimming eggs and cheese. - I lost 14 pounds pretty effortlessly and without increasing exercise, hitting my target weight. I also eat as much as I want and have never been hungry. In fact, I don't have the urge to snack as much, because of my substantial, filling meals. I am a light, social drinker and haven't really made any adjustments there. I love Guinness and it is recommended for lower carb eaters, as is dry white wines. - I feel better, probably because of less junk food and blood sugars spiking all over. I had one gourmet donut last month and felt ill afterward for the rest of the day. My body is already less-tolerant of that kind of "food" now. In fact, it instantly pivoted to craving the healthy stuff, so it has not been a hard transition at all. - I like some of the substitute foods I've learned about even better than the originals, as does my wife. For example, cauliflower rice is delicious. I also bought a food spiralizer at Target for $10, which makes various tasty vegetable approximations of noodles. So that is one 51 year old male's experiences to date and I will continue eating this way. If interested, the place I learned the most is https://www.verywell.com/low-carb-diets-4014695

That's great!

DH, 68, just this morning got the same test results back so I am reporting them --his triglycerides (54) and HDL (71) are good and his LDL (141) is borderline high. He just finished eating the first of his high carb low fat meals for the day right now (bran flakes, bananas, skim milk). Like you he avoids junk food but he also never drinks alcohol, rarely eats eggs, and does not eat much red meat. He has been eating like this for a year and a half, before which the numbers were worse and he had been on a statin, which he no longer takes. He's 5' 10" and always stays at 160 lbs, and just left for the gym for yoga and cardio with a dollop of weight training.

So very different paths re diets, same results--congrats to both of you!

[MRG]

My recent bloodwork shocked me with a fasting glucose in the pre-diabetic range! No family history, never had the issue before. My total cholesterol is too high also.

Talking with my new PCP about my diet she suggested lowering saturated fats and carbs.

When I was done dropping weight I needed an extra 500 calories daily. I really was quite satisfied with the foods I was consuming; lower carb and lower GI with decent protein, not much for saturated fats. I switched to full fat dairy products and mayo. I also added a serving of Ben and Jerry’s and a serving of Brookside chocolate, pretty much the needed 500 calories!

That's 47 grams of added sugar and 20 grams of saturated fat every night. I'm going to have to figure out a different 500 calories to add now.

[braumeister]

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Originally Posted by Markola - Other Cholesterols are borderline high, which is new and not what I was aiming for. I suspect this is due to eating more eggs, dairy and red meats.

Just FYI, there are innumerable studies that show dietary cholesterol has nothing whatever to do do with blood serum cholesterol. Personally, I don't care about it as long as my triglycerides are low and my HDL is high. YMMV.

[razztazz]

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Originally Posted by braumeister Just FYI, there are innumerable studies that show dietary cholesterol has nothing whatever to do do with blood serum cholesterol. Personally, I don't care about it as long as my triglycerides are low and my HDL is high. YMMV.

SO much so that sometime around 2014 the fat Nazis (The Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee ) advised the Government to that cholesterol is no longer a “nutrient of concern.” Saturated fat, still a no-no. This makes eggs a super low sat fat food. One huevo=6% of daily sat-fat limits. Several eggs per day would still qualify as a LOW FAT diet. Wooops! So sorry.

This is science. It changes all the time. We don't know what we're talking about but do what we say anyway until "latest studies show".... whatthehellever, then to that. Hey don't blame us. Oh btw, Got insurance? Pay before you come in. Not when you leave.

[Lsbcal]

My experience with eating is that when I have something like a donut it feels over the top. It tastes great going down, but the feeling of something being poorly digested is there. Hard to describe this in words. If I had done some very heavy exercise beforehand, that bloated feeling is perhaps not present.

That was the case when pigging out after 10K races I used to run years ago. Sometimes after the race there would be calorific treats at the finish line.

I'm thinking that one somehow overrides these feelings of bloat if overdoing it on a regular basis. Or maybe the fat cells get used to the added load? I'm imagining an arterial pathway that is developed just for the purpose of storing all that excess reserves. Haven't done any reading on this so I may be way off base.