Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-23-2014, 12:31 PM   #121
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
Of the four parties with an interest who might be able to influence outcomes, food manufacturers/providers, policy makers/academics, media and individuals, I'm convinced only the latter will ever reduce the incidence rates for obesity, diabetes or any other food related health issues.

Imagine if more and more people actually educated themselves (not just reading the marketing garbage on package fronts) on food choices AND acted accordingly?
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Sugary Soft Drinks
Old 05-23-2014, 12:45 PM   #122
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Sugary Soft Drinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Well, milk is the first 'dairy product' that came to my mind, I do drink it (in small amounts), so that's why I listed it.

I agree somewhat though - often times, sugar and/or thickeners are added to 'low fat' products (of all types, not just dairy) to make them more palatable to some consumers. I just don't think it is as universal as you indicate ...




OK, but then there is this:



So there we have an example of a non-fat dairy product with fewer sugar/carbs gms than the full-fat version.



There is no 'case' to be 'rested'. I think the point is one needs to read the labels, generalities won't always cut it.

And Almond Milk isn't a dairy product - it's not really relevant to your statement about "Dairy Products'. But it's still a good point separate from that, and I'm going to look into replacing the milk I do use (not a lot really, a quart is rarely finished around here before it goes bad) with unsweetened Almond Milk - so thanks for pointing that out!




I guess I've never heard of milkfat described as 'sweet'? I find the difference between whole milk and skim milk to be about 'richness' and 'mouthfeel' and a 'fuller' flavor. But as has been pointed out, skim milk is only marginally higher in lactose (and everything else), not because any sugar was added, but because with ~ 3.5% less fat, everything else has to increase by 1.035x to make up the lost volume.

The 'sweet' descriptor in butter is only to differentiate the 'sweet cream' that is used, from 'sour cream'. Though I never heard of butter made from sour cream, I guess it's just tradition?

No real 'argument' from me, I just like accuracy, especially with all the unknowns in food/health.

-ERD50

I agree: read labels. All of that info except the milk - presented by another poster - was straight out of my fridge, and read directly off the labels.

WRT almond milk: sure it is. You brought milk into the conversation when I had expressly said previously that I don't drink milk. I just told you why... Others also discussed regular vs. alternative milk products, the largest reason being that coconut milk and almond milk are sugar and lactose free in their unsweetened forms. Very germane to this topic.

And it is disingenuous to cite Greek yogurt vs. plain yogurt to support this argument you aren't trying to make (as you say!). They aren't the same thing - not even remotely as it pertains to sugar. Greek yogurt removes much of the whey and lactose via straining as it is made.

The article you apparently copied your yogurt stats from also plainly states that non-fat plain yogurt has more than 17 grams of carbs, a 50% increase from the full fat plain yogurt... But you conveniently left that part of the paragraph out, I see.

Compare apples to apples, please, particularly if you want to talk about how much you like accuracy!!

I am not just making this sugar stuff up on a whim. It is pretty widely known in the nutrition world that nonfat and lowfat dairy products have more sugar than their full fat brethren.
__________________

__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 02:22 PM   #123
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by nash031 View Post
I agree: read labels. All of that info except the milk - presented by another poster - was straight out of my fridge, and read directly off the labels.

WRT almond milk: sure it is. You brought milk into the conversation when I had expressly said previously that I don't drink milk.
Maybe you said that in an earlier post? I was just responding to your statement in the context of the post it was in, this thread is getting long, I may not recall every word and who said it.

Regardless, it was just that you made a pretty broad-brush statement. Whether you drink milk or not really doesn't change the statement. I was just trying to stick to the point we do agree on - read the labels.

I understand your other point - some of the non-sweetened, non-dairy 'milks' have low/no sugar, compared to relatively high sugar levels in all dairy milk. But almond milk and dairy milk certainly are not 'apples-apples'. I'd certainly say they are less alike than regular yogurt and Greek yogurt are to each other.

Quote:
And it is disingenuous to cite Greek yogurt vs. plain yogurt to support this argument you aren't trying to make (as you say!). They aren't the same thing - not even remotely as it pertains to sugar. Greek yogurt removes much of the whey and lactose via straining as it is made.

The article you apparently copied your yogurt stats from also plainly states that non-fat plain yogurt has more than 17 grams of carbs, a 50% increase from the full fat plain yogurt... But you conveniently left that part of the paragraph out, I see.
I left that out for two reasons (and it wasn't 'convenient', it took extra work! ). Here's the snipped part:

Quote:
The same serving size of nonfat yogurt contains about 130 calories, 13 grams of protein, 0.4 grams of fat, 17.4 grams of carbohydrates and sugar, and 450 milligrams of calcium.
Notice they left the word 'plain' out of that? It's easy to miss, but I see you mentioned 'plain' in your paraphrase. But they included 'plain' in each of the others. So maybe that was a flavored or fruit-filled yogurt? So it may not be apples-apples, or it might be 'plain' to 'apples'? That is why I chose the Greek yogurt, they both said 'plain' so I figured that might be more apples-apples.

And second, to reinforce that you need to read the labels, just going by one or the other descriptor may not be enough. When you are in the store, the full versus low/no fat might be two different brands/types, so... read the label.


Quote:
I am not just making this sugar stuff up on a whim. It is pretty widely known in the nutrition world that nonfat and lowfat dairy products have more sugar than their full fat brethren.
In some cases yes, in some cases no. Like we both agree... read the labels. It's not always the case.


Back to Almond Milk - does anyone make their own? I see it takes an overnight (24 hour?) soak, so I couldn't just whip some up on a whim. But we always have almonds on hand, and it might be nice to make just enough for a week if I feel like having cereal or oatmeal that week.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 04:36 PM   #124
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Fair enough! Options abound to reduce sugar... And I would be very interested in someone's idea /process for making almond milk. I eat prodigious amounts of raw almonds (well, a handful a day), so that could be cool to try. Almond butter, too. I can get my hands on lbs of raw bulk almonds at a local store.

Greek yogurt is certainly a better option for most people than plain nonfat yogurt due to the removal of most of the lactose. No arguing that. And agree that almond/coconut milk is not close to dairy, but I view it as a pn acceptable substitute given I don't drink it by the glass anyway!

Labels are interesting. A lot of people could learn a lot about food if they really understood the USDA/FDA rules on labeling (such as what is required to call your product organic, grass fed, gluten free, and other stuff like a fruit drink vs. fruit juice or cheese product vs. cheese food vs. cheese). There are myriad ways companies try to hornswaggle us into thinking their food is good for you (gluten-free processed meat anyone?)...

As I mentioned a few posts back, the best bet for avoiding sugar and other "evils" is to simply avoid packaged foods. Saves you from having to read a lot of labels too!!
__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #125
Full time employment: Posting here.
Jack_Pine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 834
Who knew sugar was such a a hot topic.

All things in moderation seems to apply to all items and over time. YMMV
__________________
The Constitution. It's not just a good idea...it's the law.
Jack_Pine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 05:38 PM   #126
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
easysurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,885
I allow myself to drink pop when I go out. But don't drink any at home. That's my compromise between quitting cold turkey or overdosing on pop.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
easysurfer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 06:11 PM   #127
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by easysurfer View Post
I allow myself to drink pop when I go out. But don't drink any at home. That's my compromise between quitting cold turkey or overdosing on pop.
A good alternative to the "rule" several of us mentioned earlier, no soda/pop (home or out) unless there's liquor (rum) mixed in...moderation assumed.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 06:34 PM   #128
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
A good alternative to the "rule" several of us mentioned earlier, no soda/pop (home or out) unless there's liquor (rum) mixed in...moderation assumed.
Remember Diet Coke w/ Lime and such? Those just tasted like they needed rum. Think I'll have a rum and Coke tonight, in fact! Been a while!
__________________
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 06:35 PM   #129
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
My main problem with sugary soft drinks is that if I am going to consume that much sugar I would rather do it in something I really enjoy such as a chocolate brownie, or a good creme brulee. To me drinking cans of sugary soft drinks is like sacrificing to buy a BMW Z4 and only driving it in rush hour traffic.
GREAT analogy. My thoughts exactly, except exchange the brownie for a good cheesecake! (A dessert shop closeby has creme brulee cheesecake. )
__________________
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 06:56 PM   #130
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by nash031 View Post
Remember Diet Coke w/ Lime and such? Those just tasted like they needed rum. Think I'll have a rum and Coke tonight, in fact! Been a while!
Damn you, now I feel obligated to do likewise. Thanks!
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 07:20 PM   #131
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Damn you, now I feel obligated to do likewise. Thanks!
Ironic that after spending the bulk of this thread bemoaning the evils of sugar, I've now driven at least one person to drink. Isn't that what they say the devil will do? Slowly erode away at the fabric of society, rather than one massive evil-doing?

Maybe my ex-girlfriend was right 12 years ago.
__________________
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 07:36 PM   #132
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: No. California
Posts: 1,600
I have made almond milk by soaking raw almonds in water overnight first. Then drain the water and blend in water until smooth. I used 1 cup of almonds before soaking and 4 cups of water. You can strain the grip/debris out if you like, I left it in since the almond milk was used in smoothies. I didn't add vanilla, but you could. I froze the extra for another time.

Rice milk is made the same using cooked rice; 1 cup rice to 4 cups water.
__________________
KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 08:14 PM   #133
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB View Post
I have made almond milk by soaking raw almonds in water overnight first. Then drain the water and blend in water until smooth. I used 1 cup of almonds before soaking and 4 cups of water. You can strain the grip/debris out if you like, I left it in since the almond milk was used in smoothies. I didn't add vanilla, but you could. I froze the extra for another time.

Rice milk is made the same using cooked rice; 1 cup rice to 4 cups water.
Thanks, that seems like the standard method from my googling. I just checked, our Costco almonds that I assumed were roasted are 'raw' (pasteurized by law since they are US grown, but the labels don't mention that, or I missed it).

I'll try this, as soon as we use up or throw out our remaining quart of dairy milk. Since I'd be likely to use it in cereal, I don't think I'll bother to strain it, I normally throw in a few almonds anyway. DW bought one of those bullet mixers to make smoothies, so that should work well to blend this. Sounds real EZ. And if it freezes well,that would be nice to make a couple weeks worth in one batch, and freeze some. I guess it only keeps ~ 4-5 days, unless you pasteurize/boil it.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2014, 09:01 PM   #134
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: No. California
Posts: 1,600
I buy the 3 lb bags of almonds at Costco and they are raw. Usually the roasted nuts are salted so it is easy to tell the difference. I roast my own and do not salt them, but save some raw to make the almond milk. I think roasted almonds taste much better than raw.
__________________
KB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 08:06 AM   #135
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
David1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,074
I have cut way down on sugary soft drinks the past couple of years, but there are two times when I really crave a can of Coke.

1. After working outside in the hot sun doing yard work.

2. When I'm not feeling well. Either a cold, sinus infection, sore throat, upset stomach, anything really. Odd because the sugar probably decreases the immune system. I think I can trace this to whenever I got sick as a child, my mother would give me ginger ale and said it would make me feel better.
__________________
David1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 09:48 AM   #136
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
+1. And the jury is still out but make sure you research what's known about how your body processes artificial sweeteners, especially those who think it's all simply calories in & calories out.
I drink around 1 can of diet Coke or diet Pepsi a day at lunch time. Haven't noticed any ill effects. Sometimes I'll do water or V8 instead.

I have not seen any info that says this consumption is bad for me. Anyone have a good link to the contrary?
__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 12:52 PM   #137
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Quest bars are great. Get the chocolate chip cookie dough. I buy them by the box, and eat them on bike rides.

I see no good evidence that diet sodas are bad. The "diet sodas make you gain weight" studies only show that people with weight problems drink diet sodas, but the press always interprets it in the reverse way.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 01:27 PM   #138
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
...

I see no good evidence that diet sodas are bad. The "diet sodas make you gain weight" studies only show that people with weight problems drink diet sodas, but the press always interprets it in the reverse way.
Not so sure about that T-Al. I don't have time to dig up links right now, but I've seen several studies with mice showing that the sweet taste, but lack of sugar, seems to trigger the body to want to get real sugar, and the mice ate more other stuff when they were given diet soda.

You can't fool Mother Nature?

Fortunately for me, I don't drink sweetened sodas, so I'm not motivated to drink the sugar substitute ones. But the ones I have tasted are awful. The people who do drink diet soda regularly seem to learn to hate the taste of regular cola. Whatever you get used to I guess.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #139
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
...but I've seen several studies with mice showing that the sweet taste, but lack of sugar, seems to trigger the body to want to get real sugar, and the mice ate more other stuff when they were given diet soda.
While mouse based studies are interesting and we share many physiological systems with mice, the human diet is fairly different from that of mice. So a study that says mice eating non-sugar sweetener crave sugar is interesting and should drive further human studies, but certainly doesn't prove anything about humans.

On the other hand, my N=1 study of myself shows that Diet Coke often makes me hungry while water doesn't. So maybe we are mouse like in this regard ;-)
__________________
mpeirce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2014, 04:17 PM   #140
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Lsbcal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 5,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
...On the other hand, my N=1 study of myself shows that Diet Coke often makes me hungry while water doesn't. So maybe we are mouse like in this regard ;-)
I generally will drink a glass of water prior to having a diet Coke. Don't know if this does anything other then giving better hydration.
__________________

__________________
Lsbcal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ready to Jump and Hoping for a Soft Landing! Dreamer2014 Hi, I am... 3 06-23-2013 10:11 PM
Mid 40's looking for soft retirement in 8yrs, 9 months and 23 days sspribyl Hi, I am... 0 07-17-2011 01:34 PM
Soft Drinks and Cancer link easysurfer Other topics 3 02-09-2010 05:58 AM
So our grandchildren become real SOFT!! newguy88 Other topics 27 10-22-2006 11:34 AM
Healthy Drinks Danny Other topics 7 06-13-2006 07:41 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.