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Old 05-09-2015, 10:23 PM   #41
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A lifetime of jogging is horrible for your body.

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Now I have given up the jogging due to knee and back issues and did not fight to quit as I don't want to wreck my body. But I thought the latest research pretty much concluded lifetime running is not harmful to the body if you have healthy joints. But I imagine that pool of candidates shrinks as the age odometer spins higher.


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Old 05-10-2015, 08:32 AM   #42
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Now I have given up the jogging due to knee and back issues and did not fight to quit as I don't want to wreck my body. But I thought the latest research pretty much concluded lifetime running is not harmful to the body if you have healthy joints. But I imagine that pool of candidates shrinks as the age odometer spins higher.


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A lot of older runners have joint and back issues. But a lot of older non-runners also have these issues.
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:37 AM   #43
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A friend who does not exercise told me thus: If I exercise I can add a year to my life, but I'll spend that much time exercising. I don't like exercising so it is not worth it for me. I think he was on to something. Many of us who exercise, actually like exercising. Others don't and maybe they are rational.
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If it were a digital result I might agree. Both my parents had strokes and were messed up for years before they actually died.
Just curious, what do these two statements have to do with each other? Did they have strokes and survive because they did/didn't exercise? I've often suspected that those who don't exercise and eat well tend to die fairly quickly, as opposed to lingering in pain and misery. Sort of like the studies that show that cigarette smokers tend to cost less in health care because they die earlier and faster than non-smokers.

I do think that there are those who like to exercise and those who don't. Just like anything else, whichever side you're on you tend to assume the others are faking it somehow. I've never understood runners, but I assume they enjoy it because otherwise why would they expose themselves to such misery (my POV).
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:02 AM   #44
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I know a number of people in my family that were sick a long time with health problems related to former and ongoing smoking prior to their passing. On the other hand, a friend of mine lost her husband when he was 42 from cardiac arrest even though he was very healthy and athletic. Many types of cancer occur in health conscious individuals, and usually these are longer illnesses.

Smokers, heavy drinkers, and drug users will die younger thus cost less in terms of social security. But they are sicker. Sadly, we've become very good at keeping people alive longer and in poorer health.


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Old 05-10-2015, 10:33 AM   #45
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Just curious, what do these two statements have to do with each other? Did they have strokes and survive because they did/didn't exercise? .........
I'll never know for sure, but when I expressed my concern about family history of strokes, my doc said to continue to eat right and exercise.

That said, I think that your interpretation is too literal. My point is that quality of life is as important as whether you are alive or dead. And, my anecdotal observation is that people that remain active seem to have a higher quality of life in their later years than people that are sedentary.
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:09 PM   #46
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My Mom believes in moderation in everything . She never exercised a lot or smoked or drank more than an occasional wine or a whiskey sour . She is 99 and not feeble . She still lives alone in an independent living facility . She plays cards daily & usually wins . Except for arthritis her health is fine so maybe the real clue to long living is moderation. .
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:32 PM   #47
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I've never understood runners, but I assume they enjoy it because otherwise why would they expose themselves to such misery (my POV).
hehe, as I am running up a steep section of trail on my second lap, I'm thinking "this is so pleasurable where are the crowds" (rhetorical)
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:11 PM   #48
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Just a seagull visit to make my usual comment about this kind of study.

The only way to show whether exercise improves your lifespan would be to randomly assign people to the more-exercise group or the less-exercise group and follow them for 15 years. That experiment is impossible to perform, so all we can say is that more exercise is associated with longer life. You can try to match and control your observations, but without doing the experiment, you can't show the causality.

That association could mean that healthy people exercise more or that people who exercise more are healthier. You can try to match and control your observations, but without doing the experiment, you can't show the causality.

You can look at it this way: Which of these two people is likely to want to go for a run?




They both fill out the form entering a number for how many hours per week that they exercise, and blue-shirt guy dies at a younger age. Was he unhealthy because he didn't go running, or did he not go running because he was unhealthy?
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:31 PM   #49
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Three questions:
What constitutes "exercise"?
What constitutes "vigorous"?

...and by omission does it mean the same standards apply to 30 year olds as to 80 year olds?



OH!... and BTW... I no longer have to worry about dying prematurely!
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
Three questions:
What constitutes "exercise"?
What constitutes "vigorous"?

...and by omission does it mean the same standards apply to 30 year olds as to 80 year olds?



OH!... and BTW... I no longer have to worry about dying prematurely!
This just released long term study can help clarify those questions and more -

Increases in physical activity is as important as smoking cessation for reduction in total mortality in elderly men: 12 years of follow-up of the Oslo II study -- Holme and Anderssen 49 (11): 743 -- British Journal of Sports Medicine

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13 (sedentary: reading, watching television or other sedentary occupation; light activity: walking, bicycling or other forms of physical activity including walking or bicycling to and from working place, and Sunday walk for at least 4 h a week; moderate activity: exercise, sports, heavy gardening, etc, for at least 4 h/week; vigorous activity: hard training or competitive sports regularly several times a week)
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Results Thirty minutes of PA per 6 days a week was associated with about 40% mortality risk reduction. There was a 5 years increased lifetime when comparing sedentary and moderate to vigorous physically active men.
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Conclusions Even at the age of 73 years, PA is associated highly with mortality between groups of sedentary and active persons
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:54 PM   #51
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Results Thirty minutes of PA per 6 days a week was associated with about 40% mortality risk reduction. There was a 5 years increased lifetime when comparing sedentary and moderate to vigorous physically active men.
So what does this say about the thousands of other studies we've been bludgened with for the past 40 years? They were wrong, is what t says. Moderate exercise = NO exercise

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Conclusions Even at the age of 73 years, PA is associated highly with mortality between groups of sedentary and active persons
This is also a meaningless conclusion. What are they saying? Nothing. A meaningful conclusion would be: Healthy people can continue to exercise well into old age. Everybody else has to slow down and /or stop. It does NOT mean exercising as any benefits. Or maybe they would like to restate.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:34 PM   #52
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I would take issue with this part of the study:
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A recent meta-analysis2 reported that an energy expenditure corresponding to 1000 Kcal/week was associated with 20–30% reduced mortality, covering all ages and both genders. This amount is comparable to the moderate and intermediate degree of our exposure variables at leisure. Wen et al7 showed in a large study from Taiwan that 15 min of daily activity at a low intensity was associated with a 14% risk reduction through a 3-year follow-up with a further dose–response reduction of 4% for each 15 min increased activity. This was somewhat weaker than observed in our data, but the authors adjusted for 13 variables (such as blood glucose and systolic blood pressure) that may have resulted in overadjustment.
... but then. who am I to judge?
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:03 PM   #53
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Tough crowd. Good thing exercise is voluntary.
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:11 PM   #54
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You can look at it this way: Which of these two people is likely to want to go for a run?



The girl is more likely to go for the run. Did I answer correctly?

However, the guy may be sitting on the couch wanting to go for a run more than the girl--he just isn't able. Yes/no/maybe?

Other guesses: The guy is daydreaming about running with the girl.

My first best guess is, he'd love to be sitting on the couch with the girl, sharing a pizza. Even better, the girl doesn't eat pizza.

I guess I should have asked if you take off for guessing.
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:24 PM   #55
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A friend who does not exercise told me thus: If I exercise I can add a year to my life, but I'll spend that much time exercising. I don't like exercising so it is not worth it for me. I think he was on to something. Many of us who exercise, actually like exercising. Others don't and maybe they are rational.
LOL.

I had a friend at work who said, "The human heart only beats so many times in a lifetime. Exercise raises your heart rate. Why would I want to do that?"

LOL!
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:12 PM   #56
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LOL.

I had a friend at work who said, "The human heart only beats so many times in a lifetime. Exercise raises your heart rate. Why would I want to do that?"

LOL!
Heh, heh.

Assume a pulse of 72 BPM for a non-exercising person. That's 103,680 beats per day. A real couch slug might be 80-100 BPM.

I exercise. That's 1 hour a day at 120 BPM. Resting pulse is 45 BPM. A side effect of consistent cardio exercise is to lower the resting pulse. Average during my non-exercising non-resting time is 60 BPM. With 9 hours resting, 1 hour exercising, and 14 hours of retiree fiddling about a day, that comes to 81,900 beats per day.

With a fixed number of beats determining lifespan, I'll live 127% of the lifespan of the non-exercising person. I'll also spend less time collapsed on the couch complaining I'm too tired to walk to the buffet...
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Old 05-17-2015, 09:08 PM   #57
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A side effect of consistent cardio exercise is to lower the resting pulse.
Yet more evidence that cardio exercise kills.

If I "exercise" my pool pump and the next day it is turning just half as many RPM, I would not say "Wow, that exercise really helped my pool pump!" No, I'd say "Whatever I did, I'd better quit because I'm killing my pool pump!" Same with our hearts. If a lower resting heart rate is a sign of great health, then all those folks pushing up the daisies with a zero resting heart rate must be star specimens.

Babies have very high resting heart rates and they have the longest expected remaining lifespans of anyone.

The evidence is pretty clear, and entirely intuitive--lower resting heartrate= closer to death. Cardio exercise kills.

(I can do this rationalization against exercising all day--I have a lifetime of practice. Probably a shorter lifetime than if I exercised! )
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:08 AM   #58
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(I can do this rationalization against exercising all day--I have a lifetime of practice. Probably a shorter lifetime than if I exercised! )
The trick is to find an activity that doesn't feel like "exercise". Walking, jogging, bicycling, kayaking, rock climbing, tennis, swimming. Heck, even golfing, if you walk and carry your clubs, and limit your strokes on the nineteenth hole...

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Old 05-18-2015, 09:15 AM   #59
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Heck, even golfing, if you walk and carry your clubs, and limit your strokes on the nineteenth hole...
Not being a golfer, I thought this was a reference to another, uh, activity.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:20 PM   #60
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I used to think of exercise as a 'dose' because I never found anything I was passionate about. Now that I've found pickleball, I'd rather be playing than doing anything else so I easily get in 2 hours of exercise on weekdays. Weekends are more like 4 hours each day.

Only downside is my knees aren't always happy with me.
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