Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Universal Health Care - what are we waiting for?
Old 04-05-2012, 01:17 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,978
Universal Health Care - what are we waiting for?

Map sorta says it all...note Iraq & Afghanistan!

We pay way more, for inferior results (vs top 30+ developed countries) and leave 17% of our population without access to health care (unlike almost all other developed countries).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg healthcareworldbig.jpg (178.2 KB, 72 views)
File Type: png oecd-health-expenditure-gdp-per-cpita.PNG (31.9 KB, 75 views)
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #2
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 265
We need to hire an image consultant.
__________________

__________________
rgarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:31 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,847
Yeah, but we have richer doctors and larger profit margins for hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, not to mention more people employed in insurance and those suing and being sued. Such a lovely system supported by those interests won't die easily, especially since Washington is bought and paid for.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 267
It may eventually go there, and there is nothing much you and I can do about it. Well, all need to pay higher taxes and the government will need to decide which is considered standard care or not.
__________________
Birchwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Map sorta says it all...note Iraq & Afghanistan!

We pay way more, for inferior results (vs top 30+ developed countries) and leave 17% of our population without access to health care (unlike almost all other developed countries).
Noted--no news here. Anybody drawing the conclusion that health care in Afghanistan is better than the US needs to get out and see the world--if that counts as "universal care" then we have already accomplished it in the US and can start congratulating ourselves. Speaking of that--why isn't the US green on the map that "says it all"--doesn't the present legislation and all the other turmoil count as "attempting to implement universal care" ?
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just North of Boston
Posts: 522
"leave 17% of our population without access to health care"
I would tend to disagree slightly with this statement... while 17% of our population may not have health insurance, they do have access to health care. At least emergency heath care.

Your second attachment looks as if it is total health expenditures (note 2) divided by the insured population (note 1). That is not the amount spent per person in the US.
__________________
ChiliPepr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:05 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
I notice that Mexico is listed as "attempting to implement." That will be great if they are successful. It should save us a few bux.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:11 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPepr View Post
"leave 17% of our population without access to health care"
I would tend to disagree slightly with this statement... while 17% of our population may not have health insurance, they do have access to health care. At least emergency heath care.
I'd have to agree to the extent that not having health insurance in the USA is different than not having access to health care whatsoever.

Note: I'm not making a plea pro or con regarding universal health care. I'm just agreeing that the term "without access to health care" isn't really accurate.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:35 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I take it you'd prefer the status quo...
Prefer it to what? That's what this entire national debate is about. I don't know anybody who thinks we can't improve the present non-system.

Regarding the health care in Iraq and Afghanistan: Your source is overstating the case. By a lot. Why are you buying that? "US war funding" does not provide universal care in these countries in any sense that you or I would recognize. The US and many other donor countries provide humanitarian assistance and developmental assistance to these nations. It goes as far as it goes. That these countries claim that everyone gets free medical care (it's a "universal right" in Iraq--hah!) is meaningless. Please--I know you don't think the US has established hospitals throughout these countries so people can get their arthritic knees replaced, get their heart bypass operations, etc. C'mon.

No graphic, especially ones like those, "say it all."
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Our convoluted health care system goes back to the wage and price controls initiated during WWII. The single payer system used by most of Western Europe and Canada goes back to the end of WWII and was made possible to a large extent by the Marshall Plan. Both approaches effectively ration care. The US does it by employment status and income. The single payer systems have prioritization policies. Of course, the rich from these countries have ways around the rationing aspect.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Prefer it to what? That's what this entire national debate is about. I don't know anybody who thinks we can't improve the present non-system.
Never mind...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
What are we waiting for?
Old 04-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
What are we waiting for?

Right now we're waiting on the Supreme Court. If that goes poorly, I think we'll be waiting for the ~17% of the population without insurance to grow in numbers to the point where it can no longer be ignored politically by either party. But considering that the most politically active demographic, the 65 and over crowd, is not only the fastest growing but also already has universal health insurance, I think we'll be waiting a very long time.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:15 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,161
I used to be against universal health care but recent dealings with the system make me wonder what we are doing as a country. To site the case of DW's bout with the norovirus recantly. Taken to the emergency room at our local hospital on 3-12 because whe was dehydrated. Discharged 3-6.
Total hospital bill $29215. This does not include doctors charges. I'll break it down for you (large amounts only).
$5247 the room in 2 East
$1409 pharmacy
$932 intervenous therapy
$10075 CT scan (can you believe that?)
$592 radiology
$7579 laboratory
$3086 emergency room
$300 some misc charges

$29215 Total. My part was $912 but discounted $228 for paying on the spot. Doctors and specialists billed separately but covered by insurance plan. All bills not in yet. We have a Medicare Advantage plan where we pay only our Medicare premium. We have copays but I don't think $684 is bad for all the treatment she got. This is the part I don't understand and take exception with our system. Of the billed amount by the hospital of
$29215, the insurance company only allowed $3947 and paid $3092. The balance was my copay which was discounted.

Now, does any of that make sense? The billed amount? The allowed amount? What happens to the difference? This is what I have against our system. The individual just can't relate to the charges. One of DW's regular medications, which we buy for $6 for a 90 day supply, was charged on the bill at $67 every day. This whole system is bulls**t!!!
__________________
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:19 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,899
Now look what ya started.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
Now look what ya started.
Yes, don't know what came over me. Actually I've been reading The Healing of America by TR Reid today, the same guy who did Sick Around The World on PBS, and the book has me stirred up again.

Even though I'm a lifelong conservative, free markets are not going to provide (universal) access to quality health care at anything near competitive prices. Until there is a serious groundswell from all us regular peeps, the special interests will make sure "our" elected officials maintain the gravy train status quo in health care. Hope springs eternal...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 04:48 PM   #16
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,487
Midpack, it is frustrating when your thread follows a path different than the one you intended.

Your mention of free market access to quality health care jogged a memory cell. If you're interested, Kenneth Arrow wrote a paper on this 50 years ago and it still considered the best case framework as to why free markets do not lead to optimal health care. You can see the paper here.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 05:34 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,161
I understand! Got it! The reason I went off is because my grandson works in the medical field and we have been at odds for awhile at just what Midpack's post illustrates. Not that my post had anything to do with what Midpack was posting, but it got me going and I just had to vent through my post. It points out that we spend more than anyone other country per person and don't have good results to show for it.
__________________
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 06:20 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Midpack, it is frustrating when your thread follows a path different than the one you intended.

Your mention of free market access to quality health care jogged a memory cell. If you're interested, Kenneth Arrow wrote a paper on this 50 years ago and it still considered the best case framework as to why free markets do not lead to optimal health care. You can see the paper here.
Thank you very much. I just downloaded the paper to iBooks to read tonight, wow, I've just started to understand what he knew in 1963...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
I understand! Got it! The reason I went off is because my grandson works in the medical field and we have been at odds for awhile at just what Midpack's post illustrates. Not that my post had anything to do with what Midpack was posting, but it got me going and I just had to vent through my post. It points out that we spend more than anyone other country per person and don't have good results to show for it.
  • Don't forget something like 17% of the population does not have access to health care unless it's an outright emergency.
  • Reportedly 18,000 people per year die for lack of health care in the US, some reports suggest it's much higher.
  • And we're the only developed country where people go bankrupt over medical care costs.
  • While paying 50-100% more than other countries.
Once I finish the book I'm reading, I'll probably calm down again, then again maybe not...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,899
I wonder what the Kardashians are up to these days.
__________________

__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What won't you give up? REattempt Health and Early Retirement 73 04-09-2012 07:26 AM
How frugal are you in ER? Birchwood Life after FIRE 132 04-08-2012 10:58 AM
What Would You Have Done? TrvlBug Other topics 41 04-05-2012 05:39 PM
Can We Talk Cataract Surgery? Marita40 Health and Early Retirement 28 04-05-2012 05:34 AM
Any suggestions for a good riding lawnmower? hakuna matata Other topics 29 04-04-2012 07:37 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:24 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.