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Old 04-02-2010, 11:37 AM   #21
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Listening to those comments on the products(as well as the incredible yucky side effects which reduce the quality of life) makes me wonder if any studies have shown that reducing cholesterol etc has ever been proven the reduce strokes or heart attacks.
That's an interesting question.

I'm still reading and learning, but I'm going down the same path you are in my questioning. What I've learned is that much of this controversy goes back to the work of Ancel Keys, who studied the effects of fat and cholesterol on health and cardio-vascular disease. He was the creator of the K-ration field meals used by the US military during the Korean war and the Mediterranean diet.

Keys' study on cardio-vascular disease and diet, called the Seven Country Study, alleged correlations between high cholesterol rates and CVD using American business executives. It was one of the first, if not the first, study on CVD. His study blamed high rates of serum cholesterol, caused by high intake of saturated fatty acids, was to blame for the increased incidence of CVD in America as compared to several other countries. Coronary Heart Disease among Minnesota Business and Professional Men Followed Fifteen Years -- KEYS et al. 28 (3): 381 -- Circulation

Keys seems to be the father of the low-fat diet and lifestyle that eventually opened the door to all of the sugary carbs that we've been talking about here. If we believe that dietary fat is not the completely evil substance that it has been characterized as - and we've been fooled into making ourselves fatter and sicker - Keys wouldn't deserve all of the blame, but he should get credit as the progenitor.

I don't claim that Keys was completely misguided - I don't have the expertise to claim that. But a lot of other scientists have been calling Keys everything from "just plain wrong" to a liar who manipulated his findings. The criticism ranges from claims that the correlations Keys found becomes very weak once data from more countries is introduced into the statistical study, to accusations that he cherry-picked data to the point that the Seven Country study is worthless.

Google "Ancel Keys was wrong" and look at some of the results.

Anyway, I found this comparison that was fun and interesting. It's anecdotal, but thought provoking.

Keys nearly lived to 101 years of age. Here he is the month before he died:



Jack LaLanne is five years younger than Keys in this picture taken recently:



Which guy do I want to look like if I live to age 90+?

I want to be Jack, baby!

I remember seeing Jack LaLanne's exercise show in black and white years ago when I was a kid. Here is what Jack preached on diet. The first couple of minutes are about alcohol, interestingly enough, and then he goes in on sugar and it's effects on health. Interesting to hear what he says about the food companies and added sugar.




Did Keys lie to us while LaLanne has been preaching the gospel? I'm not sure, but at the very least Keys studies have been used to create the low-fat high-carbohydrate diet that seems to be fattening people up for the slaughter. Good cholesterol lowering medication can help with the CVD issue (and I suspect much high-cholesterol problems are caused by hereditary factors and aggravated by diet) while we work on reducing the obesity and diabetes caused by the low-fat high-carb diet.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:12 PM   #22
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I could be wrong......

But all the advertisements n TV for statins and other cholesterol and trigliceride reducing meds always state that the use of these medications has never been shown to reduce stokes, heart attacks, or other death factors.
Also read about other side effects such as muscle weakening and depression.
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:52 PM   #23
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It is a fairly wel known fact that in the heyday of anatomy of the 1880's, before sugar was a regular part of the American diet, hardening and clogged arteries was almost unknown. But by 1930, when everyone ate lots of sugar, it was everywhere.

In any society where sugar was introduced, clogged arteries followed.

Traditional eskimos ate almost a 80% fat diet, and no one died of heart attacks and strokes, but as soon as sugar was added to the fat, they died just like everyone else.

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Old 04-02-2010, 07:33 PM   #24
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Traditional eskimos ate almost a 80% fat diet, and no one died of heart attacks and strokes, but as soon as sugar was added to the fat, they died just like everyone else.
Lifespan of an Inuit in the early 1800's: 43.5 years. It appears they have no dietary secret to immortality either.

From "Cancer, Disease of Civilization."


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Old 04-02-2010, 07:50 PM   #25
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Lifespan of an Inuit in the early 1800's: 43.5 years. It appears they have no dietary secret to immortality either.

From "Cancer, Disease of Civilization."


IIRC, that is the naturalistic fallacy. Assuming that anything that is 'natural' is good/better. Maybe it is, but let's see the proof/evidence/studies.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:00 AM   #26
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Did the video mention the formula for loosing weight:
"Expend more calories than you consume"
or the corollary
"Consume fewer calories than you expend"
Your not going to get far with that train of thought around here. The truth is many people over estimate how many calories they are expending and under estimate how many calories they are consuming.

I try to stay out of these discussions, because using your theory has helped me gain and lose several hundred, if not thousand, pounds. Depending on what I am trying to accomplish I do modify my diet and workouts. For example when attempting to gain size I eat more protein (heavier lifting and no much cardio), when attempting to lose total weight I lighten up on protein and carbs (lighter lifting and a lot of cardio). When attempting to just lose fat, I eat a good amount of protein and more carbs (moderately heavy lifting and a lot of cardio). I've been told countless times on here that my plan can't work because I'm not following any of the approved diets. I've been doing this for 16 years and it has been consistent the entire time. My workouts are as strenuous as some of the 20 years olds I work with and I'm in great shape. I'm starting to get worked up now so I'll bow out and lurk.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
I could be wrong......

But all the advertisements n TV for statins and other cholesterol and trigliceride reducing meds always state that the use of these medications has never been shown to reduce stokes, heart attacks, or other death factors.

Listening to those comments on the products(as well as the incredible yucky side effects which reduce the quality of life) makes me wonder if any studies have shown that reducing cholesterol etc has ever been proven the reduce strokes or heart attacks.

The drug companies want you to buy, and they spend huge amounts of time brain-washing doctors who have never had any training in nutrition.
I have read recently that studies have shown that the same percentage of low-cholesterol individuals have died of heart disease/attack as high-cholesterol individuals. This, combined with the potential side effects of statins makes me go "hmmmm." Millions of people take statins...are they truly effective or simply a drug company hoodwink? My doctor prescribed a statin for me but I have refused to take it. I have an appointment with him tomorrow to discuss several issues, including this. I may be a moron, but I refuse to spend my "golden years" tied to a pill box. Just won't do it.
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