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Video Concening an Experiment Comparing Diets
Old 03-25-2010, 09:50 AM   #1
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Video Concening an Experiment Comparing Diets

SarahW let me know about this entertaining video that describes an experiment comparing four popular diets. I was impressed with the design, in which women were randomly assigned to one of four books (Atkins, Zone, LEARN, or Ornish), and followed for a year. Note that the LEARN diet is essentially the diet recommended by the government (limit fat, eat whole grains).



The results come at 20:30 and 23:00 if you are impatient.

Or you can read the investigator's conclusions:
Conclusions In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.
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Old 03-25-2010, 02:33 PM   #2
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I hadn't realized that Sarah had posted this elsewhere.

Here's another interesting video concerning the obesity epidemic:

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Old 03-26-2010, 03:33 PM   #3
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I read an article about a recent study comparing the diets after 3 years. Atkins lost more during the first 12 months but regained more during the second 12 months.

This might have been it.

Low-Fat Diet Tops Low-Carb in Long Run - Weight Loss and Weight Management Information Including Popular Diet Plans on MedicineNet.com
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I hadn't realized that Sarah had posted this elsewhere.

Here's another interesting video concerning the obesity epidemic:
This takes a while to get through, but is very interesting as it attempts to explain some of the science rather than just claiming that one or another diet is better. It was frustrating however because it is almost impossible to make out the reaction pathways in his diagrams. It woujld be fine ina lecture hall, or a large size TV.

I read that John Yudkin book years ago, and I was well enough convinced of the evils of fructose that I was able to help my brother's health by one simple suggestion- stop drinking so damn much juice!

He had moved to Florida and was drinking orange and grapefruit juice like it was about to disappear from earth. His triglycerides were around 1000. He cut way back and finally completely cut out drinking juice and his levels were soon back down to low normal.

Dr. Lustig mentioned problems with alcohol, but did not spend much time on it. It sounds like ethanol is a major bad-guy. We hear so much about wine is good for your health, but maybe not if it is the potent toxin that Dr. Lustig describes. I would hate to become convinced that booze in moderate doses is a health problem. So many social transactions go better with a little ethanol lube.

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Old 03-26-2010, 04:03 PM   #5
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Dr. Lustig mentioned problems with alcohol, but did not spend much time on it. It sounds like ethanol is a major bad-guy. We hear so much about wine is good for your health, but maybe not if it is the potent toxin that Dr. Lustig describes. I would hate to become convinced that booze in moderate doses is a health problem. So many social transactions go better with a little ethanol lube.
My personal belief is that anything considered "edible" isn't likely to be as harmful to one's health -- sparingly or in moderation -- as obsessively stressing about every last thing we put into their body or the feeling of deprivation one may feel.

Could be rationalizing and wishful thinking, but as long as I'm not going overboard on anything and I try to get mostly "good" carbs and fats I'd just rather not worry about it or try to change it.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:21 PM   #6
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I found the Power Point that Lustig uses in his talk-

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/events...romelustig.pdf
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:20 AM   #7
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I found this video very interesting as well. It seems to make sense. In the video he mentions something that I thought was The Pale Yellow Stick Diet. I only watched the video once and my hearing is not the best. I tried googling it this morning and could not really come up with anything that sounds like the above. Did anyone else catch what he was saying?

I am another one who went to a health care free screening this month and my fasting glucose reading was 100. I was told that I had borderline gestational diabetes when I was pregnant with my DD 21 years ago. I was told by a nurse later that there is no such thing as being borderline for gestational diabetes. All I know is this is what I was told and I was sent to the hospital to see a dietician and given a diet to follow while I was pregnant, so I would not have a big baby. I followed it to a T and my DD was under 7lbs. I really do not want to be a diabetic ever!
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:28 AM   #8
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The Pale Yellow Stick Diet
The Paleolithic Diet -- guaranteed to improve your hearing!
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Old 03-27-2010, 10:43 AM   #9
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Dr. Lustig mentioned problems with alcohol, but did not spend much time on it. It sounds like ethanol is a major bad-guy. We hear so much about wine is good for your health, but maybe not if it is the potent toxin that Dr. Lustig describes.
I think his point was this: fructose and especially sweet drinks are just as bad (for your liver) as alcohol. We wouldn't give our 4 year old a can of beer, but we would give him/her OJ or soda. I thought that that comparison was out of place, and didn't add to his point. It just complicates and dilutes the issue, since alcohol acts on the brain as well, and has health benefits.

His main point was that while glucose isn't so bad, fructose is a toxin (it can only be metabolized by the liver, as opposed to glucose which is both necessary and can be metabolized by any cell in the body).

Does anyone know why some things aren't sweetened with glucose? Is it just too expensive? Not sweet enough?

Quote:
I try to get mostly "good" carbs and fats
But what the first study is saying is that that is exactly the wrong thing to try to do. The subjects who did not eat good carbs and the subjects who ate "bad" fats were the ones that showed the best improvements in cholesterol and blood pressure.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #10
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Wow, maybe I should get my hearing checked. I had the tv on mute, but watching WVU playing basketball, at the same time I was listening to this, and actually listened to that section twice, because it did not make sense to me. The second time I thought he said Pale yellow thick diet. I went to one of the websites for the Paleolithic Diet and I am definitely not doing it. I eat legumes, whole grains and dairy. I then went to on to skim Low Glycemic Diets and think that I would do better on them. It is definitely confusing. I do know that I definitely need to get more exercise.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:56 PM   #11
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I went to one of the websites for the Paleolithic Diet and I am definitely not doing it.
Yeah, but it probably beats eating pale yellow sticks.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:24 PM   #12
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Two good vids - thanks to Sarah and T-Al.

I did Atkins about 8 years ago and once I got past the sugar and bread cravings I enjoyed eating that way. In this society it is a pain to stay on, especially if you travel or eat out very much. The lure of the convenience of eating a more modern diet is hard to fight, but it's all that modernity that has injected the toxins and removed the good stuff.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
I think his point was this: fructose and especially sweet drinks are just as bad (for your liver) as alcohol. We wouldn't give our 4 year old a can of beer, but we would give him/her OJ or soda. I thought that that comparison was out of place, and didn't add to his point. It just complicates and dilutes the issue, since alcohol acts on the brain as well, and has health benefits.

His main point was that while glucose isn't so bad, fructose is a toxin (it can only be metabolized by the liver, as opposed to glucose which is both necessary and can be metabolized by any cell in the body).

Does anyone know why some things aren't sweetened with glucose? Is it just too expensive? Not sweet enough?

But what the first study is saying is that that is exactly the wrong thing to try to do. The subjects who did not eat good carbs and the subjects who ate "bad" fats were the ones that showed the best improvements in cholesterol and blood pressure.

Atkins--when he was alive, of course--specifically said to not try and cut any fat out of your diet. Fry that steak in butter, because if you try and cut out fat and do a low fat-low carb diet his diet will not work at all. You would be defeating the entire diet that way I understood.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:34 AM   #14
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Did the video mention the formula for loosing weight:
"Expend more calories than you consume"
or the corollary
"Consume fewer calories than you expend"
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #15
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Did the video mention the formula for loosing weight:
"Expend more calories than you consume"
or the corollary
"Consume fewer calories than you expend"
You should watch Dr. Lustig's video and see what he says about the First Rule of Thermodynamics as it pertains to human biochemistry. The simple answer is yes he mentions it, and then he explains why that is wrong by showing how the liver processes the calories from the different sugars. We still have the same biochemistry that our ancient ancestors did, but we are ingesting sugars in form and quantities that are toxic.
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:50 AM   #16
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He discusses that at 3:41.

Quote:
The simple answer is yes he mentions it, and then he explains why that is wrong
The more complex answer is that the first law of thermodynamics it is not wrong, but the usual interpretation of it is wrong. The usual interpretation is this: if you eat more than you expend you will gain weight. The entire lecture debunks this interpretation.

The correct interpretation is that what you eat can cause you to store the energy as fat rather than use it, and as a result, you need to eat more (because the energy is stored rather than used) just to live.

Specifically, if you consume a lot of fructose, much of it is metabolized (by the liver) into (eventually) fat. It's a straightforward biochemical pathway. So, instead of being used for your muscles or brain, the energy is unavailable. As a result you gain weight and you eat more.
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:43 PM   #17
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Boy this can really get complicated, and by listening to Professor Gardener it seems impossible to orchestrate a study to investigate the question. And is the question of weight loss the important one? For the moment at least, I'll have to stick to eating food (mostly vegetable and as unindustrialized and unprocessed as possible), slowly(for digestion and enjoyment), and as early in the day as possible(because it helps my stomach rest and I sleep better).
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:01 PM   #18
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I wish he had shut down the questioners a little better. He has more to say than they do; they should just shut up and let him talk.

Ha
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:19 AM   #19
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More information on how we were led down the garden path to the low-fat/high-carb/high-fructrose diet that is turning Americans into unhealthy blimps in this week's Time magazine: The Skinny on Fats: What the Latest Research Says About What You Should Be Eating - US News and World Report

Quote:
When the surgeon general issued the first report on nutrition and health in 1988 and the National Academy of Sciences issued its own report in 1989, public health authorities felt that a message to reduce total fat would be best understood by the public. The thought was... that since saturated fats from meat and dairy products were the main sources of fat in the American diet, lowering total fat would automatically reduce consumption of saturated fat. That's certainly true, in theory. But here's the rub in practice: "If you take out saturated fat, and you assume someone is in energy balance [i.e. their total calories haven't changed], what do you put in?

..."People reduced fat and replaced that fat with simple carbohydrates and refined sugar,"

That switch was aided by food companies, with their lines of "low-fat," yet sugar-filled products. A review published online in January in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition said that research actually shows that subbing in a higher carbohydrate intake, especially refined carbs like white bread and sugary cereals, can actually "exacerbate" blood cholesterol problems, including elevated triglycerides and reduced HDL ("good") cholesterol levels. To improve cholesterol, people should focus on limiting those refined carbs and reducing excess body weight, the review said. So much for unlimited SnackWells....
The AJCN report can be found here: Saturated fat, carbohydrate, and cardiovascular disease -- Siri-Tarino et al. 91 (3): 502 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

While browsing the AJCN site, I found a more recent article that seems to substantiate Dr. Lustig's claims: Consumption of high-fructose corn syrup in beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity -- Bray et al. 79 (4): 537 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Quote:
The increased use of HFCS in the United States mirrors the rapid increase in obesity. The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose. Hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis. In addition, unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production. Because insulin and leptin act as key afferent signals in the regulation of food intake and body weight, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased energy intake and weight gain. Furthermore, calorically sweetened beverages may enhance caloric overconsumption. Thus, the increase in consumption of HFCS has a temporal relation to the epidemic of obesity, and the overconsumption of HFCS in calorically sweetened beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:36 AM   #20
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I could be wrong......

But all the advertisements n TV for statins and other cholesterol and trigliceride reducing meds always state that the use of these medications has never been shown to reduce stokes, heart attacks, or other death factors.

Listening to those comments on the products(as well as the incredible yucky side effects which reduce the quality of life) makes me wonder if any studies have shown that reducing cholesterol etc has ever been proven the reduce strokes or heart attacks.

The drug companies want you to buy, and they spend huge amounts of time brain-washing doctors who have never had any training in nutrition.

Quite honestly for all the medical considtions that I have( hypertrophy of the prostate, fibromyalgia, nearsightness, loss of cartilage and effects on running) I have never been able to get a docotr to properly diagnose it or to provide any safe treatment.

I take a combination of high levels of zinc picolinate(50-75 mg a day) and saw palmetto extract and green tea for the prostate issue, and guifennesin for the fibro. Both of these treatment regimins work great and have zero side affects, and neither was recommended by my doctor. He recommended proscription meds which have massive delibilatating side effects.
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