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Old 12-07-2013, 04:29 PM   #21
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A youth in Asia thread. Wonderful.

Numbers is hard.

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension

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Old 12-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #22
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Unfortunately Canada is not immune from bad decision making at the end of life (or the beginning). I say this having been intimately involved in such decision making throughout my career. When an adult is incapable of making a decision, others must make the decisions for him or her. Many people are involved in the process and they have different levels of information, understanding and perspectives. In my experience the principal barriers to a dignified exit are faith, family and unrealistic expectations.

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Old 12-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #23
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It would be very hard to be a doctor knowing the final outcome of the prescription. Due to lawsuits, the medical industry has evolved to Hail Mary saves, out of fear of the reprecutions for not doing enough. I do wish my moms doctor would have described Paliative care as an option. I know my mom would have chosen that path.

Death is an uncomfortable subject to talk about in our society. We ignore it till it happens. Forest Gump said it best "momma always said, death is part of livn"

Our family now talks about death openly in a positive manner, and are mentally prepared for the next go around (at least we think).
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by youbet View Post
And I struggle to feel confident that every Canadian is more "enlightened and educated" than myself.
Let it go. Since there's no objective measure for "more enlightened", I'm guessing it means "more people who believe as I do."
I guess there's no objective measure for "educated" either, but a US adult has spent more years in school, on average, than a Canadian adult. Or citizens of any other nation. (Source: World Bank, as cited at ).
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Letj View Post
If I dare say this, countries where people are way more enlightened and educated than the US make those decisions all the time, e.g. Canada and Belgium. Check out the process in Canada; it's hardly the death panel that some envision. There can be numerous safeguards.
The "safeguards" in Canada remain controversial, and there has been precedent for docs withdrawing life support without family consent. This Fall a divided Supreme Court of Canada ruled that, in Ontario at least, docs could not terminate life support without family's consent OR an order from Ontario's Consent & Capacity Board (CCB). Unsettling to me, the docs argued that requiring them to obtain consent to withdraw life support would put them in an "untenable ethical situation". But the Court decision did not completely settle the issue, esp for other Provinces. As one lawyer for Ontario CCB said- "For other provinces...this judgement may lead physicians to decide that instead of telling families they're going to discontinue life support, they start the court application to get the authority to discontinue life support". The docs in the Ontario case may still apply to CCB for authority to withdraw support, so this saga for this patient & family continue.

Family has role in end-of-life decisions, Supreme Court of Canada rules in Rasouli case |

The situation in Belgium is somewhat different in that it now allows legal active euthanasia. The law (inc "safeguards") remains controversial 11 years after it was passed.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | How legal euthanasia changed Belgium for ever
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Let it go..
OK. Good advise.
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Old 12-08-2013, 08:36 AM   #27
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Thanks for an interesting discussion


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