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Old 08-08-2007, 09:17 PM   #21
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:17 PM   #22
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I think a president that can not say two words togeather that does not make him look like a second grader is worth bashing, I also think he is very fun to make fun of all you have to do is watch him, Like when he said "there is an old saying in tenn. it goes... fool me once.......... pause pause pause...fool me twice pause pause pause..... you cant get food twice.
Talk about meaningful dialogue. This guy is priceless for he comics, he supplys them with enough laughs to make jerry ford look like a strait guy.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:25 PM   #23
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I have no kids, why should I pay for someone else's family education.
Why should my kids help pay for your SS and medicare? Plus who paid
for your public school education. I guess each generation has a burden to
carry. My parents had the depression and WWII. I hope to have enough to
share with my kids if they need it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:27 PM   #24
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I'd like to quit paying for this "army" thing, and all those senators salaries in states other than california.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:33 PM   #25
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Most conservitives do not want the uneducated to know that half the health care system is already socialized. As was stated by others, if the government has no business in health care, then what about your fire dept. let the free market work here if it is the end all way. what about the schools? We have already seen what happens to schools where the $ are, and why schools in bad areas can not get good teacher and enough $ to give any kind of programs, and then the conservitves point their finger and say see, the public school system does not work, why give the underclass any more $.
As our jobs head overseas, and china owns more and more of our a$$ the conservitives sit about and do nothing saying "Oh great and wonderful free market, supply and demand, supply side econ. What shall we do next?
Which corporate whore should we give tax breaks to?"
While we are at it lets get rid of welfare, medicare,medicaid, and the big one that limbaugh hates social security, it was just another liberal social tool that FDR put in place.
Lets run this country on free market principals, god knows it worked for the stock market in 29.
We dont need no stinking rules.
Look the country is sick of the scare tactics of the 90s, socialisim is a prelude to communisum, god knows that if it were not for Joe mcarthy we would all be black balled from working,,,, wait, no that was uncle joe. Well we would all be baned from directing movies that the government did not like, wait uncle joe did that also, If you go social anything the next thing will be illegal wire tapping our phones, no wait that was bush,
Well we alow socialized meds in to our country and we fall to the commies next thing our military will invade every country it did not like, wait thats bush also..... Seems to me that the dictator government you conservetives try to scare us with only comes close to happning when you are in power. I.E. can you say Nixon?
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:07 PM   #26
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The last time our government even tried to do any thing about the health care problem in this country was 14 years ago, Hillary put forth a health care program, Not to many people liked it but that is no excuse to do nothing.
The Republican/Limbaugh theory that if you let a drowning man flounder it will make him a stronger swimmer, is bull carp at its best.
Every country in the world that is in the top industrialized nations, has universal health care.
We are at the bottom of the list when it comes to our health care system. Now lets not do the Limbaugh "we have the best health care system in the world" It is not the quality of health care that they use to confuse people, it is access to that great health care system.
Those who say that they are against social anything most of them are raging religious nuts who see Armageddon in every thing the government does, These idiots should not be allowed to vote.
The rich do not want to be taxed because they are selfish, and every one who hits it big becomes selfish.
We have 46 million people who do not have health care in the richest country in the world. I would think this alone would give the GOP a bit of shame, but I being a former GOP member, see there is no shame for these people.
Then you have the Insurance companies that regularly take premiums and then try to deny coverage to the insured.
I have lived next to Canada for many years and every one I know, would not trade their system for ours on a dime bet.
I know several people from England and they think our system is a throw back to the stone age.
These religious idiots who spout that we should let people fend for themselves,I would think see that they are treating people like a Darwin theory, survival of the richest.
Let the market and free enterprise decide how people will be taken care of. And for hating social anything? We already have half our health care system socialized, If it is so bad than lets get rid of SSI,Medicaid,Medicare,the veterans health care system.
And as far as Limbaugh's stock answer "why should I pay for your health car?" My answer is why should I pay for your kid to go to school? I do not own a car, why should I pay for your roads? I do not believe in the war in Iraq why should I pay for your war?
Because countries can only function as a social community. Even natures biggest colony's are social, Most of the insect world have social communities.
But the people who are reading the bible as a way of life instead of a book of principals, and the rich who want nothing more than a return to the days of the robber barons want to keep things the way they are.

DOGON
I am a religious "idiot", but I am for universal healthcare myself.

Isn't it kinda neat how our "leaders" can pretend to be religious get the vote of sheeple, and discredit the religious at the same time? O well I will shut up now hehe.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ruger View Post
Most conservitives do not want the uneducated to know that half the health care system is already socialized. As was stated by others, if the government has no business in health care, then what about your fire dept. let the free market work here if it is the end all way. what about the schools? We have already seen what happens to schools where the $ are, and why schools in bad areas can not get good teacher and enough $ to give any kind of programs, and then the conservitves point their finger and say see, the public school system does not work, why give the underclass any more $.
As our jobs head overseas, and china owns more and more of our a$$ the conservitives sit about and do nothing saying "Oh great and wonderful free market, supply and demand, supply side econ. What shall we do next?
Which corporate whore should we give tax breaks to?"
While we are at it lets get rid of welfare, medicare,medicaid, and the big one that limbaugh hates social security, it was just another liberal social tool that FDR put in place.
Lets run this country on free market principals, god knows it worked for the stock market in 29.
We dont need no stinking rules.
Look the country is sick of the scare tactics of the 90s, socialisim is a prelude to communisum, god knows that if it were not for Joe mcarthy we would all be black balled from working,,,, wait, no that was uncle joe. Well we would all be baned from directing movies that the government did not like, wait uncle joe did that also, If you go social anything the next thing will be illegal wire tapping our phones, no wait that was bush,
Well we alow socialized meds in to our country and we fall to the commies next thing our military will invade every country it did not like, wait thats bush also..... Seems to me that the dictator government you conservetives try to scare us with only comes close to happning when you are in power. I.E. can you say Nixon?
Try the space bar...it is that longer key on the bottom of your keyboard Seriously, I have seen both liberals and conservatives with poor reasoning skills...
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:09 PM   #28
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I think I can safely say that everyone wants affordablel healthcare.

The only people I have ever heard that were against it (universal coverage) were those that already had affordable healthcare via their employer or the government. Yes, everyone wants affordable healthcare, the problem is that more and more people do not have access, or their benefits have been cut in the name of profit, or they have pre-existing conditions that keep them from getting an alternative plan.

The key to universal healthcare is simply to end the war - it is such a large distraction that anything domestic becomes just "white noise". We must first stop the madness and then re-group and decide what we can do for the citizens of this country and quit worrying so much about throwing billions at the bidness community and hoping it trickles down.

Peace
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:31 AM   #29
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The key to universal healthcare is simply to end the war - it is such a large distraction that anything domestic becomes just "white noise".
Good reason to have wars, then, for people who don't think the government should get involved in domestic issues. "Sorry, we'd love to do that, but this war is costing so much money..." What better excuse than that? And if you object, you're unpatriotic.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:27 AM   #30
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Why should my kids help pay for your SS and medicare? Plus who paid
for your public school education. I guess each generation has a burden to
carry. My parents had the depression and WWII. I hope to have enough to
share with my kids if they need it.
I have no clue who paid for my public school education - I do know I didn't ask for anyone to. But I sure as heck didn't get asked either to pay for Suzy and Johnny's 3 baby kids education, you know the couple that quit high school (the high school I'm paying for) and have minimum wage jobs, oh but they decided to go ahead and have 3 kids. Yea they forgot to ask me if they should have the kids. Well, if we are going to pay for those kid's education by no choice of our own - forced by law or we get fined or our house taken away, by your logic we should also pay for the kids to be healthy. I can't wait for your answer as your mind has logical processes I am fascinated with.

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Old 08-09-2007, 07:18 AM   #31
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What would the face of the united states look like if it was every man for himself?
Lets take a min. and think like a conservitive.
This a view of conservitive heaven.
You would have to pay for your own school for you own kids.
The single mom would be wearing a big scarlet letter for NOT MARRIED.
People how could not afford housing, there would be no programs to help them buy a home, with down payments, loan grants, just a tough love that Limburger talks about.
We would have a tax on the people for the military, the republicans love the military.
Social security would be repealed, it was a left over from the FDR social experiment that failed.
You need to make your own retirement.
Taxes would be taken down to what the repubichairs call fair, as walter williams [An idiot by any other name] says, " take each man and woman in the usa, divide the tax burden by that number and every one pays the same."
So the single mom who is trying to take care of her kid and work, would pay the same as limburger, I call that fair dont you?
The rich would return to the days of robber barons, the poor would be at the mercy of the rich.
The middle class would vanish.
Abortion would be a thing of the past.
Health care would be provided to only those who had insurance or could afford it.

Canada and Mexico would build their own fences to keep us out, because no one but the uber rich would live here.
I can see why they like these ideas. If I were the top 10
% of income in this country, I would love the idea.
Oh ya I would also have to be a selfish uncaring, as$hole. but that seems to be a prerequesit for repubichairs and conservitives.

By the way conservitivs, Hillary is taking this country by storm. good luck.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by ruger View Post
What would the face of the united states look like if it was every man for himself?
Lets take a min. and think like a conservitive.
This a view of conservitive heaven.
You would have to pay for your own school for you own kids.
The single mom would be wearing a big scarlet letter for NOT MARRIED.
People how could not afford housing, there would be no programs to help them buy a home, with down payments, loan grants, just a tough love that Limburger talks about.
We would have a tax on the people for the military, the republicans love the military.
Social security would be repealed, it was a left over from the FDR social experiment that failed.
You need to make your own retirement.
Taxes would be taken down to what the repubichairs call fair, as walter williams [An idiot by any other name] says, " take each man and woman in the usa, divide the tax burden by that number and every one pays the same."
So the single mom who is trying to take care of her kid and work, would pay the same as limburger, I call that fair dont you?
The rich would return to the days of robber barons, the poor would be at the mercy of the rich.
The middle class would vanish.
Abortion would be a thing of the past.
Health care would be provided to only those who had insurance or could afford it.

Canada and Mexico would build their own fences to keep us out, because no one but the uber rich would live here.
I can see why they like these ideas. If I were the top 10
% of income in this country, I would love the idea.
Oh ya I would also have to be a selfish uncaring, as$hole. but that seems to be a prerequesit for repubichairs and conservitives.

By the way conservitivs, Hillary is taking this country by storm. good luck.

Wow...... I did not respond and I did not start this one.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:01 AM   #33
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There is a place for public assistance/services and a place for the free market. Both can work in conjunction with each other if not taken to extremes.

Currently, we have a true hybrid system (1/2 public, 1/2 private) of healthcare. Our healthcare system has problems and needs improvement. No one denys that fact. IMO, the private system has helped keep the public system in tact by providing a place where providers of care can go to re-coop lost income from unfairly low Medicaid and Medicare re-imbursement rates (by cost-shifting to the privately insured). This, in part, is what has led to our spiraling cycle of inflation. Were it not for the ability of care providers to "cost-shift", we would begin to see shortages of doctors, just like what is currently occurring in the primary care market today. Both kinds of healthcare systems (purely private or purely public) have very negative consequences. We need to find a way to retain the best parts of our current healthcare system, while at the same time, making sure that everyone has access to basic care. It can be done with a well-thought-out plan.

Even I am not against public education, athough, I think a voucher type system, implemented properly, could potentially, improve the quality of the education system. Personally, I work my tail off to send my kids to a private school. As of today, my children are two years ahead, academically, than they would have been in one of the local public schools. I've got a second grader who excels at multiplication and division and a fourth grader who can read at a post-high-school level. Everyone should have the freedom to demand the best possible education for their children, and whoever chooses to have children has a duty to be involved, take part in that process, and contribute financially to the cost of that education.

On the social security system, I'm not counting on it being there for me. I have a system in place to save for my own, because I am fairly certain there won't be anything left by the time I am old enough to collect - especially if we nationalize health insurance....IMO, the money for that will come from what's left of the social security fund. I've been told (although I don't know the details) that Chile implemented a privatized social security system and had success with that. Anyone know more?

....and one more thing....those **** corporations. They employ people. How rude; how awful; how degrading. How could they be so thoughtlesss and evil?
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:26 AM   #34
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....and one more thing....those **** corporations. They employ people. How rude; how awful; how degrading. How could they be so thoughtlesss and evil?
Yes they do, and I work for one and get paid well. That's great for me. The problem is the place corporations employ people is moving out of the country, and the reason, everyone knows it, is lower wages. I look at where things are made all the time, and a Microsoft mouse I picked up the other day said "Designed in U.S.A." They didn't want to put where it was manufactured (China, Malaysia, etc.) but where it was designed. Hey that's great, Microsoft employed 10 or 15 engineers to design a mouse in the United States, but employed 100 or 500 to make them in another country. This is the way it is going. My Company as of the first of this year, no longer has a retirement plan available for new hires. Folks, our standard of living is going down, and other countries like China is going up, they will equalize at some point in the future, and it ain't gonna be like it used to be here. Health care? Better go get a surgery textbook and read up so you can fix yourself at home, because you probably aren't going to get universal health care. Get ready.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:31 AM   #35
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I would also like to make a comment about the disabled man who cried about his family's healthcare situation during the democratic debate the other day. It sounds like he had a good job (I think he said for a Steel company?) for many years - didn't he say 36 years? Of course I don't know what his company benefits were like, but don't the union-type jobs usually have fairly good retiree health benefits? Although I do feel for his family's situation, I wonder if he is collecting social security disability....If not, then isn't it possible that his wife could find a job with health benefits? And I also wonder why, during those 36 productive years, didn't he purchase a disability insurance plan for himself, knowing that he was his family's primary care taker, and that if he were disabled, they would face financial hardship. Shouldn't that have been a priority? Why should America feel bad because he didn't plan financially for disability? There are three outcomes in life...we will either live a long, healthy life, die or become disabled. Everyone who has the means to should plan for all three possibilities.
Does anyone else wonder if that man was purposely placed in the audience to play an act?
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:03 AM   #36
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The problem is the place corporations employ people is moving out of the country, and the reason, everyone knows it, is lower wages.
Then again, if it weren't for Microsoft, you wouldn't have a high-tech computer or mouse....And maybe, if they didn't do business the way they do, you'd have to pay twice as much for your computer....I'll bet everyone would be complaining if they had to pay $4000 for their home computer instead of $2000. Would you be willing to work for the same wage as the Chinse manufacturers? If so, maybe Microsoft wouldn't leave the USA to find laborers. Maybe Americans should lower their standards on their wage expectations for menial jobs. Each time the minimum wage is increased, you are going to see more and more outsourcing.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:10 AM   #37
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Then again, if it weren't for Microsoft, you wouldn't have a high-tech computer or mouse....And maybe, if they didn't do business the way they do, you'd have to pay twice as much for your computer....I'll bet everyone would be complaining if they had to pay $4000 for their home computer instead of $2000.
No, they wouldn't complain because if they didn't do business the way they do, i.e., made the items here instead of overseas, people would be paid the requisite salary here, and so would have a good-paying job to be able to pay the higher cost of the system. See how it works?

P.S. I certainly hope you don't think they manufacture oversees to provide us with lower cost products.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:12 AM   #38
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Play act? Even if he was, does this one person take into count the 46 million uninsured, the millions underinsured, the millions denied coverage because of the bottom line of a corporate entity?
The republicans dismiss anyone who asks questions.
I was listening to Limbaugh, yes I listen to see how far he has gone nuts.
A caller, who tried to ask about his health care as carefully as he could, you could tell he was a Limbaugh fan. but was having a problem getting health coverage, Limbaugh shot back Why should I pay for your health care?
Is health care something only the people who can afford it should be granted?
Is that the kind of county we have become?
Has free market become so perverted that big oil, big business has become the shrine we bow down to?
Where the upper class has all the power all the money, all the access to privilege?
I am sure some may want a country like this, but the masses will not stand for it, the lies the republicans spew trying to scare people into giving up social security, because "you could do it better your self, we only care about your money" what crap, they only want their own money back out of the system, the insider trading they could put it to would make them millions more than SS.
Ken lay, and Jeff skelling, were good examples of how corporations run today, while ken is having 1 million $ birthday parties for his wife, the rank and file of Enron are told they can not sell their stock, their retirement goes in the toilet while skelling goes on a baha bike trip.
The Enron company calls a electric plant in cal. tells them, "don't you need to shut down in peak time for "maintance" to pump prices, then is recorded saying, I think we can get grandmas whole SSI check this month.
Yes the free market is the answer, I am not against free market, but it needs strong, very strong oversight by the federal government.
When you let them regulate themselves it is the fox in charge of the hen house.
When you have ceos taking multi million dollar wages and at the same time running into the ground the companies they are supposed to be building up, we have to ask, WTF IS GONG ON, the bush attitude of letting things run on their own government does not need to get involved is a load.
Why then if he thinks this so strong, did he give Halliburton a free no compete contracts for the war to find WMDs? you know the fake war.
I will tell you, because the free market the way it is, is a license for the rich to manipulate things in their favor.
The people of this country are seeing conservatives for what they are, selfish fat, a$$holes.
If it is so bad to have liberals in the white house for big business why is it our economy is slipping under bush and under Clinton we had the best economy in 40 years?
Bush has at best done nothing to help the us economy, and at worst is destroying it.
The true conservatives do not even think GW is a real conservative, He is just the best they can do at the moment.
But these fat butts thought that they would keep the senate last election, and they were wiped out, I think the gap will grow in 08, so do many republicans, they are worried. Most are even starting to say there will be a democrat in the white house in 08.
We will get national health care sooner or later. it is not a question of if but when.
Every country in the world that we equate ourselves with has national health care.
But for the next year we have a pres. that talks to invisible friends in the sky, and thinks he is called by god to destroy all those who do not bow to the cross.
You know bush would be beating gays if he thought he could get away with it.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:20 AM   #39
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But for the next year we have a pres. that talks to invisible friends in the sky, and thinks he is called by god to destroy all those who do not bow to the cross.
That reminds me of a quote by Sam Harris:

"If George Bush talked to God through a hairdryer, it would initiate a National emergency. I fail to see what difference the addition of a hairdryer makes."
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:25 AM   #40
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No, they wouldn't complain because if they didn't do business the way they do, i.e., made the items here instead of overseas, people would be paid the requisite salary here, and so would have a good-paying job to be able to pay the higher cost of the system. See how it works?

P.S. I certainly hope you don't think they manufacture oversees to provide us with lower cost products.
So, let me get this straight. You think that Microsoft should spend twice as much to hire Americans and provide full health and retirement benefits for menial jobs and then charge twice as much for their computers (you don't really think they are going to give up their profits if they do all business in America, do you?). If Microsoft does this, then the people they hire who will likely make minimum wage will be able to afford the expensive, fancy technology because they now have good paying jobs.
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