Weight Machine

[Amethyst]

OK, so suppose you buy somebody's used Bowflex and somehow manage to haul it home. Is it possible for the average person, with average tools, to set it up?

Amethyst

Probably wasting [-]my[/-] your time, but I also vote (third vote) for a Bowflex. I've had one for about 11 years and I think it's not only safer than freeweights (of course), it's safer and a better workout than most if not all weight stack machines. My only gripe with all these machines is how much space they take up.

I use dumb bells, but not larger free weights, because you'd have to have a spotter and I want to be able to work out safely alone.

I prefer the Bowflex because it's all cables and pulleys vs tracks, so it brings stabilizer muscles and others muscles into the workout (aside from the major muscles most exercises target). You don't get that benefit when your lifting on tracks and the path of the weights is outside your control - the other muscles don't get into the game. Using more than just major muscles should provide a greater benefit in real life when your muscles are actually called to act. FWIW...

 

[TromboneAl]

Maybe I'll give the bowflex another look, thanks.

 

[Midpack]

OK, so suppose you buy somebody's used Bowflex and somehow manage to haul it home. Is it possible for the average person, with average tools, to set it up?

Amethyst

If you can put together a conventional weight machine, you can certainly put together a Bowflex - neither is very difficult. And if you buy used, there's no reason it would need to be completely disassembled, just broken down into a few manageable pieces.

 

[TromboneAl]

If I have to disassemble something I will take many photos first

 

[harley]

The bowflex assembly is nothing. One of the easiest things I've ever put together. Easier by far than anything that ever rolled out of Ikea. I suspect the designer was sober and the instruction writer spoke English. Also, there aren't any weights so it doesn't weigh much at all. And it has wheels so you can tip it and roll it without even taking it apart. Just bungee the bench up to the tower and away you go.

I gave mine away when we moved a few years ago, due to lack of space. I've been thinking about seeing if my buddy is using it, and asking for it back if he's not. It's certainly not as good a workout as free weights, but it's fine for most things. I do think the leg workout is rather weak, for some reason. But for upper body and core, it works pretty well.

 

[Midpack]

If I have to disassemble something I will take many photos first

Mine is a Bowflex Ultimate (old model that offers 90 different exercises) and it took a little doing to put it all together originally but the instructions were good. But now you could easily break it down into 3-4 big pieces (rods, bench, tower & leg attachment) and move it - there is no need to fully break it down again. If you had a pickup truck, you could move it without disassembling at all (provided you could also get it in-out of respective homes). But the same would be true for a conventional weight machine...good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Amethyst]

Thanks for the tips & hints. Will keep an eye out for a good deal on a bowflex...will have to rent a pickup truck though.

A.

If I have to disassemble something I will take many photos first

Mine is a Bowflex Ultimate (old model that offers 90 different exercises) and it took a little doing to put it all together originally but the instructions were good. But now you could easily break it down into 3-4 big pieces (rods, bench, tower & leg attachment) and move it - there is no need to fully break it down again..

 

[slingshot]

You can have our bowflex, all the stuff, and the owners manual. In great shape. I have shipped heavy things & even horses via a company called uship.com, dont know if they are still around.

 

[TromboneAl]

This bowflex is only $100.

But it looks more limited -- does anyone know what model that is?

 

[zinger1457]

This bowflex is only $100.

But it looks more limited -- does anyone know what model that is?

It looks similar to what I have (Bowflex XTL) except there is no leg attachment and the lower horizontal pulley attachment isn't adjustable like it is on the XTL. Not a bad deal for $100. If you decide it's not for you you'll have no problem getting your money back.

Don't see it in the photo so I would check if this one comes with a squat attachment, it's something I use all the time.

 

[TromboneAl]

Right. I think that one's out, since the leg exercises are a high priority. I am going to look at an Elite

tomorrow just to try out the feel of a bowflex again, to see if my old impressions were correct for me. The seller wants $650, which is the price of a new one. It's been on craigslist for over a month, so I'm sure she'd be willing to consider a much lower price.

I'm really only interested in something like the Body by Science "Big five" exercises: pulldown, chest press, seated row, overhead press, and leg press, so much of the capabilities of the machine I get will go to waste. I can currently do the approximate equivalent of the first three with pullups, pushups, and this:



If I do the pullups and pushups very slowly, the rep count is in a good range.

Of course, I'm tempted to make one of these:

 

[TromboneAl]

Today I bought this:



I gave Bowflex another chance, (thanks Ronstar, Zinger and Midpack), and I decided the feel was OK. I figured a Bowflex would be of better quality than most home gyms, have continued company support, add those micropositional movements, and be easier to move.

This had been listed for $600 over a month ago, then $500, and I bargained them down to $400. The seller and her boyfriend and I manhandled it onto my truck, then at home I partially disassembled it, and put it back together upstairs. I was impressed with the assembly manual and the alignment of the parts. It was slow, easy, and fun. It's in like-new condition.

I've tried some exercises with low resistance, and I'll take it easy when I start.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[W2R]

Looks great, Al!

 

[Midpack]

Congrats Al. I really hope you like the Bowflex and I know you can get good results from it like many home gyms. You got a good deal and that's one of their more compact models (I'm jealous, mine takes up a lot of space).

We're here to pump you up...

 

[TromboneAl]

I did my first high intensity training on the Bowflex today. I was careful not to overdo it. It will take a while to get just the right amount of resistance.

The lat pulldown, chest press, seated row, and seated overhead press all worked well, but I haven't gotten the squat working well yet. This is how it is supposed to work:



But the problem is, when I load things up, it's hard to get the squat bar into position without having to bend down too far. I have to pull it over my head. If I have to bend way down, they I'm risking my back. I'm talking to their tech support, which is good, and I've got some things to try.

I could do the leg extension instead, but a number of sites say that that puts too much stress on the knee.



I was worried that the seated row would put too much stress on my back, but that's not the case at all.

 

[haha]

Looks pretty cool. If you cannot work out the back squat, can you turn around and face the machine and do either a front squat or a bent leg dead lift?

IMO either of these is perhaps better anyway than the back squat.

Ha

 

[Midpack]

I haven't gotten the squat working well yet. ...the problem is, when I load things up, it's hard to get the squat bar into position without having to bend down too far. I have to pull it over my head. If I have to bend way down, they I'm risking my back. I'm talking to their tech support, which is good, and I've got some things to try.

I wish I had a great answer for you but I don't, I noticed the same thing. However, it didn't bother me once I got used to it because it was only the first rep that I had to bend down too far and I just took it really easy starting out. Subsequent reps I just never went below thighs parallel to the ground. Yes, I realize you've already figured that out.

If you hear a better way, I'd be interested myself...I hope you like your Bowflex, I found mine to be very effective and safe to work with alone (no spotter).

 

[TromboneAl]

What do you mean by a "front squat?"

I can do a squat using the hand grips, but I have to work out some details on that.

I can do a dead lift like this:



But I'd be too worried about my back.

Actually, you've made me realize that I could a "dumbbell squat" like this:



And set it up so that I don't have to have the resistance on all the way to the floor. That is, the rods would engage only when my thighs are parallel to the floor. Thanks, Ha.

 

[W2R]

Al, I don't know much about squats but from your description of the other exercises, you're doing just fine with them! I'm glad to read that you are being careful not to overdo at first. There's plenty of time for slowly increasing weights as you become accustomed to the machine.

There's an old saying that you probably know, "Better light and right, than strong and wrong." In other words, make sure you have the form correct first, and then you can always add weight as time passes. The reason is to prevent injuries and get the desired benefit. Although this saying was meant to apply to free weights, I keep it in mind even when using the machines.

The gym was so hard for me today, for some reason. It felt as though all the weights were heavier! I barely made the last rep on the overhead press and a couple of other machines. Oof. At least I was able to complete my workout as before, but just barely. Maybe it's the extreme humidity and heat - - even though the gym is air conditioned, it seemed like the AC was barely keeping up.

 

[haha]

What do you mean by a "front squat?"

I can do a squat using the hand grips, but I have to work out some details on that.

I can do a dead lift like this:

View attachment 11977

But I'd be too worried about my back.

What I mostly do is deadlifts. I have never hurt myself that way, but I have with squats. Re the front squat, with a barbell you clean the bar to your chest just below your chin, then squat keeping very straight. You can't usually use as much weight as the back squat. But looking at your last drawing, either face the machine forward or backward, and clean the hand grips to your shoulders, and squat. Also, if you can place your feet pretty much inline with the handgrips, you can do a very straight backed deadlift. Squat down, grab the grips, and stand up. Rinse, repeat. To me, this is the way to go.

Ha

 

[TromboneAl]

I noticed the same thing. However, it didn't bother me once I got used to it because it was only the first rep that I had to bend down too far and I just took it really easy starting out. Subsequent reps I just never went below thighs parallel to the ground.

That's helpful.

So you bend way down and pull the squat bar up and over your head?

I would like to only be able to do about 10 reps. How many reps do you typically do?

The tech suggested that I have the squat straps loosened all the way, put the bar on my back, and then tighten the straps (like tightening a backpack). I can't try that yet, because the seller still has one of the straps (I'll pick it up Saturday).

 

[Nords]

Actually, you've made me realize that I could a "dumbbell squat" like this:

Unless you're squatting a couple hundred pounds, I think the free weights will give you far more control than the machine's constraints. The body's micro adjustments to control the weight are at least as helpful as the gross-motor coordination.

And if you are squatting a couple hundred pounds then you'd use the weights on a squat rack.

I've learned to hate squats & lunges, but they seem to be the best combination of low-impact and strength-building for injured knees.

 

[TromboneAl]

Well, with the dumbbells I'd have 45 pounds in each hand, and I could do up to 20 reps and never went near failure. So I figure I'd need maybe 60 pounds to be able to do only 8 reps. There's no way I could feel confident pulling 60 pounds off the floor.

 

[haha]

What do you mean by a "front squat?"

I can do a squat using the hand grips, but I have to work out some details on that.

Actually, you've made me realize that I could a "dumbbell squat" like this:

View attachment 11978

And set it up so that I don't have to have the resistance on all the way to the floor. That is, the rods would engage only when my thighs are parallel to the floor. Thanks, Ha.

This last photo is what I mean by dumbbell deadlift. It is really the same thing as a dumbbell squat when done this way. Perhaps you are thinking of straightlegged deadlifts, which I do not do.

Try 50# in each hand. If that is not enough, try 60.

Also, I don't know if I posted it, but there is research from McMaster U that showed that 3 sets x reps to failure with (.3)* 1repmax weight were more effective at stimulating muscle fiber-growth associated hormones than 3 sets x reps to failure with (.7)* 1repmax weight. No comparison was made with fewer sets, or only one set to failure.

I plan to bring by trap bar from my son's and get some cardboard box or something to slide it under my bed with, then use it and some plates that I can store in the corner to get most of my workouts right here. I'll have to get a good mat to set the rig down on, but I would never need to drop it. I can also work in the garage. I'll start at 115, and see if I need more. But I plan to do 3 sets of each exercise, each one to failure. I am reading the Body Science book, and I am impressed, but IMO there are some real jumps that are not necessarily valid. Might be, but I can't find any research to support it.

Also, there may be some things for which volume is not at all important, and others where it is- like bone mineral density or ligamentous toughness.

Overall, I do like the idea of less weight and more reps, because it is way less likely to get away from you, and if it does it is way less likely to cause havoc. and you don't have to psych yourself up to start.

Trap Bar Deadlifts 275 lbs x 61 reps - Bing Videos

Ha

 

[Nords]

Well, with the dumbbells I'd have 45 pounds in each hand, and I could do up to 20 reps and never went near failure. So I figure I'd need maybe 60 pounds to be able to do only 8 reps. There's no way I could feel confident pulling 60 pounds off the floor.

Well, under most circumstances that'd be squat-rack time, but another alternative to 60 pounds would be single-leg squats with 30 pounds.

I've been consistently building up my knees by doing double-leg squat sets with 50 pounds for a year. At this point in earlier times, in typical competitive testosterone-poisoned guy mode, I would have kept raising the weight until I couldn't pull it off the floor to squat it. Besides, hoisting weights one at a time up onto massive squat-rack-supported barbells, grunting with effort as we pile them on, makes us chick magnets.

But now I keep the same 50 pounds and focus on absolutely perfect form with explosive power. It's been the same weight for over a year but I can still finish three sets of 15 reps with trembling hamstrings and dripping in sweat. I also move a lot faster from one exercise to another to keep up the heart rate and accelerate my fatigue, so by the time I get to squats I'm already a hurtin' puppy. I guess in some small manner it's vaguely similar to CrossFit.

But I take comfort from knowing that if I ever get competitive again about the mass then I can revert to single-leg reps.