Weird back pain

[audreyh1]

I haven't noticed it mentioned, but strengthening the abdominal area is just as critical as strengthening the back or other muscles. The torso muscles work together and strong abs will help support the back when lifting, especially when bending or twisting while lifting, whether a heavy or light object.

Audrey

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 I haven't noticed it mentioned, but strengthening the abdominal area is just as critical as strengthening the back or other muscles. The torso muscles work together and strong abs will help support the back when lifting, especially when bending or twisting while lifting, whether a heavy or light object. Audrey

+1 , very true, muscle imbalances are frequently the culprit

[TromboneAl]

When I first tried these even though I was generally in good shape, I had a lot of trouble with side planks on one side. Like "Wow, this is hard!" But very soon they got easy. I think that indicates that those muscles were very weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TzI8j776Z8

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 I haven't noticed it mentioned, but strengthening the abdominal area is just as critical as strengthening the back or other muscles. The torso muscles work together and strong abs will help support the back when lifting, especially when bending or twisting while lifting, whether a heavy or light object.

Actually the Nautilus abdominal machine even exercises the back as much as the abdominals. We each do just as much on the abdominal machines as on the back machines. When either of us have back problems, we can't use the abdominal machines, especially the Nautilus one. I think/assume that most people would balance their core exercises, but then who knows?

[Major Tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by veremchuka A doctor once told me this is rather typical, it's the quick movement for something inconsequential that will throw out your back. Presumably when we do heavy work and lifting we are more careful.

Sometimes I don't even know what it is that throws my back out. A few weeks ago I was on my back in bed for a few days unable to move. Even getting up to go to the bathroom was a major undertaking. I'm pretty sure that the trouble started while I was sleeping, but I wasn't sleeping in a particularly twisted position that night, so who knows?

All I know is that regardless of what I do, my back will go out every now and again. I've accepted it as a fact of life.

[ERD50]

Thanks for the comments and replies - I won't quote anyone as I pretty much agree with all that was said.

I'm progressing, so I'm happy about that. Still too 'iffy' to make the trip downtown with DW & kids tomorrow that we were thinking of, some other time.

I have no idea if these McKenzie stretches are helping/hurting/indifferent to whatever else I may have done instead. But since I have improved, I'm going to stick to the routine every 2 hours during the day as he reccs, and then move onto the other exercises. We will see.

I definitely feel better after a session (EX #1, 2, & 3), esp now that I'm using those cushions to get off the floor with less strain. It's pretty amazing how you can feel the pain/stiffness melt away after about 30 seconds just lying in position #1 (he has you hold it for 2-3 minutes). Whether that is indicative of long-term improvement though, I don't know, but it seems encouraging.

But in the past, I've also felt much better after doing a stretch that involves laying on your back and pulling your knee to your chest (alternate knees). But McKenzie says you should not do this until after you've pretty much recovered. He refers to this as a flexion stretch, and not only should you not do it while your back is sore, but you should always follow it with one of the extension exercises.

Just FYI, the reviews of his book were overwhelmingly positive on Amazon, but the info I could find on controlled studies indicated the method was roughly the same, or maybe marginally better than other treatments. But if those other treatments mean trips to doctors and therapists, etc, and if you can do these easily at home, that seems like a big advantage. Anyway, I'm going to keep up the regimen. And heck, even if it only helped 1/100 people, if you are that #1, good for you!

Regarding the muscle/abs, etc - I agree, and I'm hoping the followup exercises he reccs wil be appropriate for that. And I'll review the list T-Al posted. When I do exercise (I'm bad and inconsistent), I include a lot of crunches - again, who knows if it helped or not, I may have been better or worse off without them?

I've also strapped a home-made lumbar roll (rolled up blanket) to my computer chair - that definitely feels better in terms of support - time for me to get up and move around.

-ERD50

[TromboneAl]

I strained my back despite doing crunches regularly (several times per week). Along with my Internet research, I concluded: Crunches are not that effective, and do more harm than good.

Are Situps & Crunches Bad For The Spine? | LIVESTRONG.COM

I realize that there are different points of view on this, but my personal rule now is that any core strengthening exercises involve holding a position, rather than movement. For example, I'll hold a side plank, instead of repeatedly moving my hips to the floor and up.

I'm hoping this will end my pattern of straining my back once every few years (along with daily stretching).

[TromboneAl]

And:

Stop Doing Sit-Ups: Why Crunches Don't Work - The Daily Beast

[Mulligan]

I have to do a lot of these stretches to stay somewhat limber and protect my back. I was just thinking, getting older and losing my hair, getting grayer, using reader glasses, and acquiring wrinkles, etc. doesnt bother me at all. What I miss the most about being young is being naturally limber and not waking up stiff in the morning!!!!

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan I have to do a lot of these stretches to stay somewhat limber and protect my back. I was just thinking, getting older and losing my hair, getting grayer, using reader glasses, and acquiring wrinkles, etc. doesnt bother me at all. What I miss the most about being young is being naturally limber and not waking up stiff in the morning!!!!

I love the effects of my gym workouts and stretches for this reason, too. They help me to feel so limber and flexible, and not so achy and old.

What I miss most about being younger, is being able to eat all I wanted and not gain weight. And then the natural strength and energy - - I remember bounding up flights of stairs when I was 18, carrying three boxes of books at a time without even feeling winded and laughing about it. Ah, those were the days!

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl And: Stop Doing Sit-Ups: Why Crunches Don't Work - The Daily Beast

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl I strained my back despite doing crunches regularly (several times per week). Along with my Internet research, I concluded: Crunches are not that effective, and do more harm than good. Are Situps & Crunches Bad For The Spine? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Yes, there are different opinions, and it is tough to know what works. But I am really wondering if those crunches weren't aggravating the condition rather than help. It kind of fits in with what McKenzie describes. I'm hoping his limited flexion stretches really are the key. And I will cut out the crunches going forward.

About the only thing I feel pretty confident in is that doing a dozen lunges a few times a week helps keep my knees in shape, it really seems to help. But knees are a lot simpler than backs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan ... I was just thinking, getting older and losing my hair, getting grayer, using reader glasses, and acquiring wrinkles, etc. doesnt bother me at all. What I miss the most about being young is being naturally limber and not waking up stiff in the morning!!!!

Ummmmm, I seem to recall, part of being younger was waking up stiff in the morning!!! Is that a 'circle of life' thing? Like starting out in diapers, and....?


-ERD50

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl When I first tried these even though I was generally in good shape, I had a lot of trouble with side planks on one side. Like "Wow, this is hard!" But very soon they got easy. I think that indicates that those muscles were very weak. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TzI8j776Z8

That's very interesting that your obliques were weak on one side.

I end up doing the side plank relatively often as it is used as one of the key core exercises in the Gilad video series that I am often doing. He has a variant where while you are in the plank position with your upper arm you reach down under your lower side (almost as if to pick something up) and then straighten back up in to normal side plank position. You do this several times while holding the plank position. Pretty good oblique workout!

Audrey

[ERD50]

Well, I've been doing the McKenzie stretches every two hours throughout the day for the past three days, interspersed with that back-stretch #4 when I feel I need it. It feels better after I do them, and I get progressively better as the day passes. Whether that is strictly due to these stretches I can't say, I normally feel better as I move more through the day, but I'm pretty sure they are helping.

But..... every morning I wake up in terrible shape, barely able to get out of bed. I've been using a rolled up towel as lumbar roll, but going 7-8 hours w/o movement just seems to get my back all tightened up again. If I progress 5 steps forward during the day, I just take 5 steps back at night. I was going nowhere. It was really frustrating to feel as well as I did each night, just to be back at square one each morning. I picture that Greek myth of the guy (would never spell the name right ) who rolls the rock up each day, only to have it roll down and have to start all over for eternity. Yuch!

So I decided to set a timer for 2.5 hours, and just get up and do the stretches two times over the course of the night. As I had hoped, 2.5 hours wasn't enough time for my back to get too tight, so getting out of bed was fairly easy, and I got through the stretches without any problem. Repeat 2.5 hours later, same thing (I didn't bother with the lumbar roll after the first time, didn't seem to make a diff).

And when I woke up, I was much better than the previous days. It was well worth waking up 2x during the night for this. Instead of 5 steps backwards, maybe only 2 or 3 steps. And today, I progressed further and faster, since I didn't have to make up for so much set-back. I'm guessing I'll take 6 steps forward today rather than 5. Hopefully I can get to 1 session at night soon, and then none. A small price to pay for progress! And I fell right back to sleep, so no issues there (nothing a nap wouldn't fix anyway).

I noticed this after the car accident I was in years ago. I had to get up and move every two hours, or I'd be so tightened up it would be awful (broken ribs/wrist a bunch of general bruising). I'm surprised they don't cover this in the book - the lumbar roll is their only suggestion.

It seems typical for back problems to be at their worst upon waking, so if that's your problem, and you can handle it, I'd suggest trying some stretches through the night and see if it helps you.

-ERD50

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 But..... every morning I wake up in terrible shape, barely able to get out of bed. I've been using a rolled up towel as lumbar roll, but going 7-8 hours w/o movement just seems to get my back all tightened up again. If I progress 5 steps forward during the day, I just take 5 steps back at night. I was going nowhere. It was really frustrating to feel as well as I did each night, just to be back at square one each morning.

Ouch. Sorry to hear it. Is your bed reasonably comfortable for you, normally speaking? If not, this might be a good time to fork out the $$$ for a better bed.

[Mulligan]

ERD50- I sure hope you get over the back pain eventually. Sleeping in 2.5 hour block times for months on end, doesnt seem very appealing, but neither does back pain. As I push near 50, my aches and pains in the back and hips come sporadically, then disappear. Some mornings if I can just get those first 10 steps in it loosens up after that. If it was progressive or ongoing on a daily basis, it would really put me in a foul mood.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R Ouch. Sorry to hear it. Is your bed reasonably comfortable for you, normally speaking? If not, this might be a good time to fork out the $$$ for a better bed.

It's one of those memory foam mattresses, not the Tempur-Pedic brand name, but every bit as good or better per the reviews. Since I'm fine in-between these periods, I don't think it is the problem, but back issues are so complex, who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan ERD50- I sure hope you get over the back pain eventually. Sleeping in 2.5 hour block times for months on end, doesnt seem very appealing, but neither does back pain. As I push near 50, my aches and pains in the back and hips come sporadically, then disappear. Some mornings if I can just get those first 10 steps in it loosens up after that. If it was progressive or ongoing on a daily basis, it would really put me in a foul mood.

Thanks, I don't expect it to go on for months or even weeks. I normally recover from these things with maybe a week of pretty bad tightness, then a week of minor tightness, then a few more weeks of just being extra careful. It's just that this time, I keep having little things that re-trigger it again, before I more fully recover.

I'm hopeful that the McKenzie stretches, followed by the strengthening steps he suggests once the pain is gone will help. That, and eliminating crunches might make all the difference in the world.

Thinking about this, I realize that it was ~ 10 years ago that I was doing more exercising (including crunches), and that also roughly the time I started to have these episodes. I never really connected the two, just thought the problems were due to age and that the exercise should help. Maybe I had it 180 degrees wrong?

-ERD50

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 It's one of those memory foam mattresses, not the Tempur-Pedic brand name, but every bit as good or better per the reviews. Since I'm fine in-between these periods, I don't think it is the problem, but back issues are so complex, who knows?

Although I've never tried it, memory foam is supposed to be pretty good. If it is fine normally, then it sounds to me like you are right that the bed is not the problem.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 It's one of those memory foam mattresses, not the Tempur-Pedic brand name, but every bit as good or better per the reviews. Since I'm fine in-between these periods, I don't think it is the problem, but back issues are so complex, who knows? Thanks, I don't expect it to go on for months or even weeks. I normally recover from these things with maybe a week of pretty bad tightness, then a week of minor tightness, then a few more weeks of just being extra careful. It's just that this time, I keep having little things that re-trigger it again, before I more fully recover. I'm hopeful that the McKenzie stretches, followed by the strengthening steps he suggests once the pain is gone will help. That, and eliminating crunches might make all the difference in the world. Thinking about this, I realize that it was ~ 10 years ago that I was doing more exercising (including crunches), and that also roughly the time I started to have these episodes. I never really connected the two, just thought the problems were due to age and that the exercise should help. Maybe I had it 180 degrees wrong? -ERD50

Well, you do bring up a good point, on a short term basis anyways. When all I do is just lite daily stretching, my body feels as good as it is going to feel. When I work out and do my long walks, my joints bark at me. So I only lift a couple of days a week and only walk 5, so my joints can rest. Muscle recovery is no problem, its just the joints, especially hips and shoulders.

[TromboneAl]

Search "stretch lying gokhale" on YouTube.

[ERD50]

A little update in case this info is useful to anyone:

I went two nights with a timer to wake up 2x each night and doing the stretches. This is helping tremendously, no where near as bad in the AM, and I loosen up faster and further as the day progresses. Last night I went to just one wake-up at night, and that was good enough now that I'm getting better overall.

I'll probably continue the 1x per night stretches until I gain a bit more confidence that 7 hours in bed won't lead to tightening up my back so much. The minor inconvenience is nothing compared to what I was going through.

McKenzie says you need weeks of pain-free time before proceeding with the flexion exercises - I sure hope they act to prevent further occurrences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Search "stretch lying gokhale" on YouTube.

Thanks, I'll check those out. But right now I'm a little gun shy of making any changes at all, but I'm bookmarking these for later.

-ERD50