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Old 01-26-2018, 02:53 PM   #41
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One wonders whether the Creator really meant for alimentation to get this complicated, requiring so much mental effort....
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:56 PM   #42
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The hardest part about all this is that there was a time in my life when I was that guy. And now I'm not.
DW can still do it, however her blood chemistry gives it away.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:48 PM   #43
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I will throw this out there to think about:

I think the microorganisms in one's gut release compounds that say "Feed me!" So if you have been on a high carb diet, all the microbes that like high carbs take over and pump out these compounds (call them hormones if you like) which mess with your brain and gut. These crowd out the microbes that like high fat or that like high protein.

Or maybe it is not the microbes themselves, but the genes they activate and turn on to digest whatever it is you are feeding them.

So if you can change your microbes by changing your diet ... or ... if you can push those microbes out by eating more fiber, so your food goes through you faster, then these microbes will have less influence over your nutrition, calorie use, and weight gain/loss.

I think this is partly why almost every diet works for awhile: Your microbes are stunned by the change, but they adapt and then start sending out their chemical messages. It is also why different people have different results from different foods: They got different microbes in their gut.

And in the extreme if you have microbes that give you constant diarrhea, then you are going to lose weight.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:24 PM   #44
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Good point: It is a personal experience. Human bodies are complex and what works great for you and me may not be helpful to somebody else. And visa-versa.

One thing that really bothers me about the article is that is beats people over the head with the "It worked for me, and if it didn't work for you, then you must not have done it right, because you are ignorant, stupid or defective in some way" belief system . Alas this belief is all to common in the areas of health, nutrition, exercise, etc.

If CICO works somebody, great! If being a vegetarian works for others, great! If low-carb works for me and you, fantastic. If eating three ice cream sundaes each day works for the guy next door - I am in sanely jealous.
CICO works because it is science, proven. It is factual. Yes, there are minor variables at play (which the article addresses) but they are just that, minor. CICO doesn't work for 'somebody' at the expense of someone else. It just works. Calorie counting is the tricky part. Implementation is where the problems come in...again, as addressed fully in that article.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:05 PM   #45
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One wonders whether the Creator really meant for alimentation to get this complicated, requiring so much mental effort....


Certainly. More evidence that she hates our guts.
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:40 AM   #46
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IMHO, CICO, does not help many folks. A few things to consider.

- How in the world did humans maintain a healthy weight prior to identification of the calorie?

- How does most of creation stay thin? Last time I checked, humans were the only animals that could even count calories.

- Today we are able to measure calories in and expenditure of calories more accurately than at any time in history. Calories are shown on food package labels. We build multi million dollar gyms on every street corner to burn calories. Yet, our weight has been on a steady increase for several decades.

I believe it is time for another explanation, one that answers the question, "Why do I consume to many calories".

From what I have seen, many experts are moving to a "whole foods" recommendation. Whole unprocessed foods appear to be the natural diet of humans. And, like everywhere else in nature, when humans eat the correct diet, their body spontaneously maintains a proper weight. Weight appears to be an automatic system unless we muck it up with sugar, refined carbs and other low quality processed foods.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:59 AM   #47
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The hardest part about all this is that there was a time in my life when I was that guy. And now I'm not.
In my 20's I was over 6 feet and wanted to gain weight so I could fill out my size 30 inch waist pants and not have them look so darn baggy. Three sundaes a day was not enough!

I was looking at some photos of my uncles and father last year, these guys were all in their 30's and 40's at the time. Many of the photos were at the beach our outdoors with shorts, often with no shirt. They were all very lean, not skinny, just no fat showing at all.

A few years ago a teacher I knew hosted a French high schooler for 6 months as part of an exchange program. The young girl gained 20 pounds in that time and was seriously worried about what her mother would say when she returned home. IIRC, she thought she looked like a 'sack of potatoes'.

So, Yes, regardless of whether or not one counts calories, carbs, eats vegetarian, Mediterranean, paleo of whatever, there is something in our food and/or the way that it is processed that, for many of us, is throwing our bodies for a loop. And, yes, probably our personal eating habits need improvement also. We can't blame it all on somebody else.

Side note: it is good to see so many of our older retired folks taking an interest in their diet and overall health. We deserve a big pat on the back.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:12 AM   #48
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I believe it is time for another explanation, one that answers the question, "Why do I consume to many calories".

From what I have seen, many experts are moving to a "whole foods" recommendation. Whole unprocessed foods appear to be the natural diet of humans. And, like everywhere else in nature, when humans eat the correct diet, their body spontaneously maintains a proper weight. Weight appears to be an automatic system unless we muck it up with sugar, refined carbs and other low quality processed foods.
CICO is just math. It doesn't explain why we eat too much, just why we gain weight when we do.

I think you're on the right path here. An invariable product of processing and commoditization of the food chain is a massive increase in the caloric density of food. The connection from our eyes to our stomachs is still working on a million-year-old evolutionary relationship between food and satiety. We can now ingest an entire day's worth of food before our system can realize it and stop the cravings. We can do that in under ten minutes, easy. In the past, it took a lot longer. Whole foods, especially non-meat items, is about the only way we have to reset things.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:29 AM   #49
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A few weeks ago DW and I both began a weight-loss program at the gym (they actually call it The Wellness Center) in an effort to lose "that last few pounds" that bugs most people. Both of us would like to lose at least five, and I'd prefer to lose ten, but I'll settle for five. BTW, I'm male, 5'9" and 155 lbs.
I'm same height and only 10lbs. heavier than you and in no way shape or form feel overweight. And I would guess that since you go to the gym you have better muscles than I (which means more mass), so why exactly do you want to trim down to such a low body fat? It's not going to help you as you get older from what I've read, some fat is not a bad thing.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:49 AM   #50
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Basically just to get that five or ten pounds off. It's not a huge deal for me but it's been sort of an irritant for several years. I'm fully aware that lots of people would love to be my height and weight. Even the doc said that I don't need to lose it but doing so wouldn't hurt anything either.
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Old 01-27-2018, 01:02 PM   #51
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I believe it is time for another explanation, one that answers the question, "Why do I consume to many calories".

From what I have seen, many experts are moving to a "whole foods" recommendation. Whole unprocessed foods appear to be the natural diet of humans. And, like everywhere else in nature, when humans eat the correct diet, their body spontaneously maintains a proper weight. Weight appears to be an automatic system unless we muck it up with sugar, refined carbs and other low quality processed foods.
Yes, whole foods are definitely what we should be eating. The carbs (including sugar) in highly-processed junk foods are what puts weight on (and also has many negative health impacts), to a large degree. You really do not need to be concerned with calories at all if you eat mostly whole foods. The problem, of course, is that those highly processed junk foods are ubiquitous, and most people don't have the discipline to avoid eating them. Just go into any grocery store and look at what they are selling in all of the middle aisles...........I'd venture to say that 2/3 of it is stuff you should not be eating (or at least not eating very often). Another thing to avoid like the plague are the so-called industrial seed oils (vegetable oil, canola oil, corn oil......any of the jug oils). That stuff is not even food, in my book. If you do a search for how these oils are made sometime, it will make you sick.
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:06 PM   #52
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I've lost a legit 2 lbs since this thread started. I've ridden my bike on 1000 calories rides and I'm eating pop-corn and and apple for dinner the past few days. Pop-corn has no butter, no salt and is just 1/4 cup of unpopped corn kernels popped in a microwave and coated with "nutritional yeast" afterwards.

So that counts as "whole food" since it is the whole corn kernel and the whole apple.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:44 PM   #53
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I can remember eating 10 out of 12 donuts and drinking quarts of half and half trying to put pounds on this 6'5" frame of mine, I was only 170#. For years I shoved 3 sandwiches, 2 doz. cookies, 2 candy bars, couple cans of Pepsi for lunch during a 10 hour shift.
I do not eat anything close to that now, but weigh 230#. I don't look or feel overweight, but still eat what I want, I just don't. All my numbers are good except BMI, which I think is BS.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:48 AM   #54
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The hardest part about all this is that there was a time in my life when I was that guy. And now I'm not.
I tell my 18-year old, "enjoy it now."
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